screamingmorris

1949 CONN VOCABELL CORNET.......NO RESERVE! - eBay (item 190213076757 end time Apr-14-08 11:39:52 PDT)

When that seller said that his instrument was a 1949 Conn Vocabell (48A) cornet and I looked at his photos, I was ready to ridicule his ignorance about cornet versus trumpet.

But then I looked at
The Conn Loyalist
and discovered that he was right about what Conn called it.

But was Conn justified in calling it a cornet?

- Morris

MFfan

Hey Morris, since Conn made it, they could call it a pygmy tuba if they wanted to! Anyway, looks like a nice horn. I hadn't run across that one on Connloyalist for some reason. Sure looks like a trumpet, I agree. Maybe it is most conical like other cornets? Of course, the Mendez Olds Cornet looks like a trumpet also and many "long cornets" looked like trumpets, like the Gretsch I used to have. Maybe Christine knows the background of and will comment.

__________________
Dave Rafferty
07 Barrington Trumpet, 1972 Reynolds Medalist
55 Besson 8-10 trumpet
55 Roth by Reynolds Cornet
73 Olds Ambassador Cornet
30's Czech small bore Trumpet
Getzen 80 cornet, 33 American Standard cornet
66 Olds Ambassador Trumpet
www.kalamazooconcertband.org

brem

A Cornet is a mostly conical bore instrument whereas the trumpet is a mostly cylindrical bore instrument. Now, the way the pipes are arranged is NOT the best criteria to call an instrument a trumpet or a cornet.

There are short cornets, some with shepperd's crook, some longer "american" cornet, and so on... For trumpets, pocket trumpets... etc.

Where is the line between conical and cylindrical is pretty much where you want to put it...

HOWEVER, in your case, it does look like what a so-called "normal" trumpet would look like. But if the bore is conical enough, maybe it does have a slightly darker sound with less bright overtones, thus qualifying for as a cornet.

That's my take on it anyway.

__________________
brem
-----
NYTC Stage 1 California Light - Schilke 15B mpc
Bach Stradivarius Bb Model 37 * #124xxx (circa 1975) - Schilke 15B mpc
Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn #000xxx - Yamaha 14F4-GP mpc

Dale Proctor

Well, Conn made quite a few trumpet-shaped objects and called them cornets. The main difference between them and their trumpet brothers was a cornet mouthpiece receiver and a little extra leadpipe length. To me, using a cornet mouthpiece in a trumpet doesn't make it a cornet.

__________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away." - Sir Thomas Beecham

Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.org

MFfan

In looking at the Connloyalist picture and Christine's commentary, it looks like the 48A was a classic "long cornet" using a cornet mouthpiece due to the receiver specs. and the 48 B trumpet used a trumpet mp receiver. My thought is why would Conn make these separate models over 13 yrs or so if the only difference in them were the cornet and Trumpet receivers. It would seem logical that there may be some differences in the construction and intended use and I see Christine has mentioned the receiver difference and the lack of thrid slide receiver ring in comparison with the 48Bb.. I recall looking this stuff up when I was trying to figure out why my Gretsch took a cornet MP and learned about the long cornet thing. The 48B trumpet page shows the 3rd slide ring and the same design, with the positions of the tuning slide and 3rd reversed from many instruments.

Wonder if it was awkward to use the ring, indeed if you were supposed to anyway. My old Remington trumpet has a fixed ring just intended for stabiltiy, I think, as you cannot adjust the slide and have to "lip" relevant notes. Interesting topic.

__________________
Dave Rafferty
07 Barrington Trumpet, 1972 Reynolds Medalist
55 Besson 8-10 trumpet
55 Roth by Reynolds Cornet
73 Olds Ambassador Cornet
30's Czech small bore Trumpet
Getzen 80 cornet, 33 American Standard cornet
66 Olds Ambassador Trumpet
www.kalamazooconcertband.org

Indian

Conn made two versions of the Vocabell cornet and Trumpets. The 40A and 40B are peashooters and have a longer tighter wrap than the 48A and 48B which were made a little later. I have a cornet and trumpet of the 40A and 40B ilk. The cornet is very dark and is a dual boar instrument. The lead pipe is also different design and length than the trumpet version. They are both very heavy compared to other trumpets. The art-deco styling is evident in no slide pulls, hidden water keys, 10 sided valve casings, pinky hook design, etc. I really like mine. It was claimed that the absence of a bell rim could add an additional 15 decibells of sound. I know mine can really belt out sound and have a it does have a strong upper range. Some people don't like the styling and added weight but I think they are the coolest and love to play them. Some people used to cut the rim of other brands to copy the Vocabell sound but I don't think they ever succeeded. Part of the tone I think comes from the additional weight.

__________________
Rob,
King Liberty SilverTone (3)
King Liberty (7) Super 20 (2)
Conn Vocabell 40A - Conn 80A (6) - Conn 81A (1) - 22B - 4B Symphony
Conn 16B (Coprion Bell)
Holton French LeBlanc (1) - Al Hirt 550
Olds Studio (1) - Special (1)

oldlou

On this subject, the principal proponant of brass instrument 'conicality' would have to be E.A.Couturier, the maker of The Conical Bore series of instruments, in LaPorte, In.. Even the valve through tubes are conical. I have owned several of these fine horns in both, short cornet and long. The long version looked exactly like a trumpet and can be seen in the Couturier segment on Horn-u-copia.. The long version is what I currently own. A fine horn it is.


OLDLOU>>

__________________
Couturier trumpet
York Master Model trumpet
York Elite trumpet
York Airflow cornet
King super 20 Master Model cornet
King Liberty trumpet
Reynolds Professional cornet
Bohm & Meinl professional trumpet
Besson 10-10 trumpet with Holton M.F. bell
Olds Special cornet Los Angeles
B&H Sovereign cornet
G.R.Band Instr. cornet
Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet and cornet
Getzen Deluxe trumpet and cornet
Many others no room to list

nieuwguyski

I have a 48A cornet (okay, it's been bastardized with a trumpet leadpipe to replace the original rotted-out cornet leadpipe, but it was originally a 48A) and have had an opportunity to compare it to a 48B trumpet. While they look almost identical, they are almost completely different instruments.

The 48A has a .467" bore, while the 48B has a .458" bore. The 48A has a dual-bore tuning slide -- .458" top, .467" bottom -- while the 48B has a straight-bore tuning slide. The two horns have subtly different proportions -- the 48A has the valve section slightly farther forward than the 48B, and the relationship between the back bell bow and mouthpiece receiver is different. The 48A has a significantly larger throated bell than the 48B, as demonstrated by the radically different insertion depths of my cup mute into each bell.

Based on my inspection, I'd say that the two instruments don't have that many components in common. Whether or not the 48B is or is not a cornet is still debatable, but it was more than just a 48A with a different leadpipe.

__________________
John N. Nieuwguyski

Dave Mickley

when I was starting out in the 5th grade my dad took my paper route money and bought an used conn cornet. it looked exactly like a trumpet but used a cornet mouthpiece. I gave the horn away in high school [wish I had it back] but even had a couple of band directors who said it was a trumpet until they tried to put in a mouthpiece. Dave

__________________
formerly known as old geezer Dave
C7
Yam. 231 Fl. 15383
King Master Cornet 295628
Weril Cornet Lo 7535