ecarroll

Jimi,

I'm rather sure that Garry's arrangement isn't published. It's not too difficult to make your own, however, from the piano reduction (probably found in the Schott catalogue with most of Ligeti's other works).

Also, Peter Masseurs (solo trumpet of the Concertgebouw Orkest) recorded it with the Schoenberg Ensemble/Reinbert de Leeuw. Check it out!

Good music/not too often played -- 2 for 2 in my book.

Best,
EC

CGUM

Hello all,

I have seen this in the schott catalogue and just checked their catalogue online and they do seem to have an arrangement for solo trumpet as well as scores for the opera and what not. Though, to be honest, my german is horrible and I think it said solo and I think it is only available for rent. And not to brown nose, I like Ed's idea. I like the howarth version but maybe there is something else in there that would work just as well or better.

On the note of hakan performance of this in chicago. It was a great show and enough has been said about it. But, It seemed there were ad lib in the ligeti in some of the dialogue. Which made it even more interesting since it became even more theatric.

CG

josephus07

Back to Sequenza X,

When the trumpet plays D4, does that note act as a fundamental, complete with its own overtone series?

Does the playing of D4 into the piano with damper pedal down actually cause all of harmonic series with that note in it to resonate? That would be a backwards relationship of normal, right? I mean, when you play a fundamental, it will cause the overtones above it sound, but if you play a note, does it really cause pitches below it to sound?

Thanks

josephus07

So here's why I'm asking about the fundamental.

The opening of the Sequenza has the trumpet palying a D4 and F4 while the piano has the damper pedal down.


The opening (first 5 measures) of the Chemins has the same trumpet part and then a LARGE collection of notes present in the ensemble.

If D4 and F4 are treated as the first overtone (since that is what they are on the trumpet...right?) then the fundamental would be D3 and F3.

Expanding the harmonic series from D3 and F3 up to the 15th overtone (16th partial) accounts for MOST of the pitches present in the ensemble...thus it would appear that Berio is simply using the ensemble in the Chemins to highlight the pitches that would theoretically be sounding in the piano in the Sequenza.

The "leftover pitches" that wouldn't fit into either harmonic series (built on D3 and F3) would be

C4, Eb4, E4, Gb4, G4, G#4, Bb4, B4, Eb5, E5, G5, G#5, B5 and Db6.

However, if D4 and F4 are the fundamental, there are a lot more notes that would be unaccounted for (not from the overtone series of the trumpet pitches).

FURTHERMORE, if I'm misunderstanding and ANY D follows the harmonic series of D1 and any F follows the harmonic series of F1, then more of the pitches would be accounted for.

This is important because I'm trying to figure out where these pitches came from...it SEEMS that for the most part they are from the overtone series, but I'm not sure.


AHHHHHH!

ecarroll

J,

We're dealing with the overtone series of the strings in the piano (down to the very bottom), not the overtone series of the trumpet. Silently depress any key on the piano and play that note one octave (or more) higher on the trumpet. The string will still ring, albeit on the partial that you played.

Best,
EC (exploring G4 Powerbook resonance)

JackD

Hi Ed,

Well in particular my jaw was down by my ankles for pretty much of the whole of the Berio. His technical control was just amazing (the only time I've been more impressed was when I saw him doing the PMD concerto ... !) and his sound was gorgeous. I had never heard the piece before and I thought it was very powerful, and the use of the piano resonance to create chords and accopaniment was extremely effective.

The Ligeti was one of the strangest pieces I've ever seen performed, and I think people in the audience were a bit taken aback when Hakan started saying "SHHHHHHH!" ... "silence ... is ... golden!" etc etc. I think he's very conscious of the theatrical element of performing, as he was talking to one of the students who played to him in the masterclass about it.

I was very familiar with the things he played in the first half, and while they are some of my favourite pieces of music, and he played them exquisitely, I preferred the second half! It was a on the edge of your seat type thing.

ecarroll

Jack,

I go to concerts hoping that my ears will be expanded in some unexpected way and it seems that this is what you recently experienced. Fantastic!

I agree that the Honegger Intrada, Enesco Legende, and Hindemith Sonata are fine pieces (I particularly like Legende), but I wouldn't pay a dime to hear even a great interpreter like Hakan play them. His performance of the amazing H.K. Gruber Concerto a few seasons ago in Los Angeles was a landmark for me, however. It's a great piece (perhaps the best trumpet concerto?) and he was playing at a level rarely encountered. This isn't to say that I won't attend concerts of music that I've heard many times before -- far from it -- but Intrada isn't exactly the Ninth Mahler or the Quartet for the End of Time, in my (very personal) opinion. I'm more drawn these days to new/experimental musics, performance art, jazz (or free improvisation), world musics, and the opera.

Fun, great fun. Keep writing. . .
EC

josephus07

Mr. C,

I've spent A TON of time listening to the Sequenza over the past few days and now when I listen to the Chemins I don't "like" it as much (though that has nothing to do with my project).

Would you be willing to share why you mentioned that you prefer the Chemins?

Listening to the piece just keeps getting better and better.

Thanks!

ecarroll

Mr. J,

Perhaps "prefer" shouldn't have been used. I like both versions. However, hearing the orchestral version (particularly live in a fabulous setting like the Concertgebouw) was particularly satisfying. Was it the "traditional trumpet concerto" roles being played or was it simply more sonic variety in a larger space? I have no idea.

Cassone plays the devil out of it both ways -- entirely by memory. Quite a feat, that.

EC

josephus07

Hi Ed!

Hard to believe it's been nearly a month since I've asked a question about Berio. I've been working on my proposal - 30 pages! Yikes! Turning it in tomorrow for approval.

So I was wondering if the Pedal C in the Sequenza is supposed to be a C#, or if the C# in the Chemins is supposed to be a C natural, or if this would be the one pitch in the entirety of the two pieces that is supposed to be different. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

David