robertwhite

It is fair to expect a high level of performance. However, having sat on audition committees for real jobs, I can say that there is always at least some bad playing. As a professional myself, I know there have been times where I've "folded", so I'm sympathetic. None of this is really the point though.

The point is that Eddins complains one one hand that auditions are "cruel and pitiless" but then decries the lack of standards. Isn't the "pitiless" format of the audition the quickest way to get rid of those whose playing isn't up to par? You only need one winner, after all.

trptcolin

Ed-
I think, in re-reading my post (and in thinking about Jim Wilt's comments that you linked), that I made a mistake in suggesting that orchestra trumpet sections sound similar because of the recordings they listen to. I don't mean to sound like the committee had constructive comments for me just because I sound different, because I know I have a lot of playing problems.

As one example of many, I know that my sound needs work. I've worked for a few years to get some brilliance into my sound, and now I need to make sure that there's still plenty of roundness and depth. AKA: play in the middle of the note?

I'm going WAAY out on a limb, but I won't name any names: is it possible that some of the different tone qualities (strictly tone, if we can imagine isolating that) of orchestra players of the 1950s and 1960s might be due to playing north or south of center?

-Colin

robertwhite

This comment doesn't make sense. It sounds like typical "back in my day" kvetching, frankly. Either the standards are higher, or they aren't. What I think is actually true is that more people show up to auditions where they shouldn't be. This is an unfortunate by-product of fairness, I suppose. However, it's not as if these poor deluded souls are the ones winning the jobs, so what's the problem?

ecarroll

Colin,

Back in the day (as my kids like to say to get under my skin), Mr.s Voisin, Ghitalla, Herseth, Adelstein, Johnson, and Vacchiano certainly sounded different than one another. I doubt, however, that it was because of a concious effort on their part to play above or below the center of the note. They simply heard music (and their voices in the ensemble) differently, as probably do you and I, and expressed themselves in different musical ways. Viva la difference! Positive differences are the spice of music, no? (said with a Gallic shrug)

RW,

I wouldn't know Mr. Eddins if he were to walk into the room right now so I can't answer for his reasons for writing as he did. I still see this as an attempt at clever writing, however, and not as a statement on his part (other than the bit about rolling out of bed and nailing the exposition of the Haydn, which I agree with). Did he respond to your note and, if yes, can you share it here?

I've also been on both sides of the screen, although my more recent experiences as an auditioner tend to trump my memories of being auditioned. That said, auditioning was the topic du jour at my weekly studio class last night at McGill. We discovered that within the class, all good and bad experiences behind the screen (McGill even conducts ensemble placement auditions in this fashion) ultimately reflected preparation. As we know, a good experience doesn't mean the audition will be won but, hopefully, what we take from each audition is a positive.

It's a shitty process, isn't it? (but it's what we have)

Best,
EC

ecarroll

Colin,

One more thought: all good players play in the center of the note in every register. One may favor more high overtones in their sound and another more lows (my personal ideal is equal parts highs and lows), but the center rules the roost.

By the way, do you study with Fred down there? If so, please say hi.

Clucking,
EC

trptcolin

Ed-

Yeah, this is kind of what I was thinking, and your language about overtones helps clarify it for me.

I'm actually done with courses, but studied with Fred for I think around 5 years now (did my MM here before I started my doctorate). I see him often, though, and will say hello!

Back to the practice room,
-Colin

wiseone2

I auditioned for and won the job in Baltimore in 1965............ I played the Haydn Concerto, some Stravinsky, Strauss, Tchaikovsky and a few other pieces which have fallen out of favor. These were the standard audition works of the day. Mahler had not yet been re-discovered. In those days little or no high trumpet was expected or asked for.......maybe just "The Trumpet Shall Sound."
I was ready at the time of the Baltimore audition. Two years before that audition, I had played the Haydn with the Philadelphia Orchestra. I had been first trumpet with the Philadelphia Little Symphony, Al Genovese was the principal oboe of that orchestra. Sam Krauss was my teacher, he made sure that his students knew the repertoire or he advised them not to waste their time and money going to an audition. Gil Johnson was as honest a teacher as I ever had. If you sucked, Gil had no problem telling you just how crappy you played
The players of my day were certainly on the same level as today's crop. Try hand copying trumpet parts from scores. There were 3 Bartold books and the Voisin book available in those days.

What did Dirty Harry say? "A man's got to know his limitations."

Wilmer

robertwhite

Wilmer,

I'm not asserting that standards are actually higher today than they once were. I'm only saying that both assertions can't be right. Either players were better prepared back in your day than they are today, or they weren't. I think that it's a valid argument that too many students are going after jobs they aren't ready for these days - but I don't think the teachers can be blamed. Self-delusion is a powerful force!

EC,

I wrote to Eddins, as did some others on the TH, to dispute some of his points. Alas, he didn't post any of our comments, but instead posted an "apology" to those he offended (as in "I'm sorry you chose to get offended by what I said".... )

Anyway, he did respond to my email privately and basically defended his comments in much the same manner he did on the blog.

What's most disheartening to me is the fact that yet another conductor has gone public decrying "the process". I'm always suspect when a conductor says such things. I think they are trying to garner sympathy from frustrated musicians in order to try and make gains in their own power to hire and fire. Call me a conspiracy theorist.

ecarroll

RW,

Never, as you know, under-estimate the ego of a conductor :)

Let's have a beer sometime and I'll tell you Bernstein, Haitink, Tennstedt, Mehta, and Gergiev tales that I guarantee will crack you up (bet you have a few too)

Best,
EC