Heron543

I've passed around as many copies of Clifford Brown with Strings as I can, and all who have heard it come back with open mouths. They've never imagined these sounds together and when they hear them, what magic they hear. We just need to get it in front of people.

matthoffner

Did anybody watch the NBA All Star game this year? It was in Houston and for the player introductions they had the Houston Symphony playing Beethoven 5, Also Sprach, and some pop songs (there was something funny/bizarre about a clarinet playing licks from Eminem).

As mentioned earlier, it seems like orchestras are reaching for audiences. I thought I would share this example.

-Matt

trumpetera

Do you also have a huge genus-perspective discussion in the states as we do here in europe?(at least here in Sweden)

The government recently did a orchetra investigation, wich came to the somewhat bizarre conclusion that to much of the orchestras repertoires was written between 1700 and 1890, were written by male compsers, and conducted by men.

They also reported that the Beethoven 5 (as an example) was played far to many times(in percentage) in comparison to modern works!

I'm not sure wether I read in it about quotation for male / female orchestra musicians, it can just as well have ben a nightmare of my own, so that will be unsaid

But you see where it's going.

Is the situation similar across the pond?

All the best!
Trumpetera

JackD

I agree to an extent - I think nothing compares to hearing a fantastic symphony orchestra in full swing live. Recordings just don't capture the energy and excitement that enormous sound produces in me.

You have an interesting point about the Mulan mixed with Mendelssohn programming, but really think education about the music is incredibly crucial in order for someone to appreciate it. While I agree it's sometimes difficult to find a way in and attract kids to art music, I don't think plonking them in front of an orchestra playing film music, followed by mozart will produce instant classical music fans. It would a start, though.

I taught music lessons to groups of about 30 11 year old kids a few years ago, and when asked what music they liked the responses that came back were generally pretty predictable - mostly what was in the top 10 at the time. I asked if they liked 'classical' music, and they said no (this was after a saturday morning's worth of music, covering pretty much every style we could think of!). When asked why, the reply came: "Because it's too emotional". I found that really quite interesting.


May I ask a rather stupid question re: US orchestras? Are there any dedicated new-music orchestras, such as the London Sinfonietta? I ask because as I understand it there isn't so much subsidisation of orchestras in the US in comparison to Europe?

TPT81

I have to say, that when I started this thread, I never expected it to become such a popular topic, but I also couldn't be happier.

In response to what Carl, Noonan, said, I couldn't agree more. You said that the experience provides the education. My question is, not just for Carl, but for everyone, what can we do to make sure that kids are given the experience? And, in what way can we make the experience engaging for a generation that is growing up on Xbox, the internet, and other high-speed, low attention span media? I think that this is where the challenge lies. Of course, in a forum full of music lovers, we are probably not the best people to answer these questions.

Again, thanks so much to everyone who has replied. Keep it coming.

Zeb

PS Thanks to Matt, who I stole the Avatar from. I wonder if people will reply less, now that they know there are two Yankee fans in the conversation.

Manny Laureano

I'm not aware of any except for chamber groups that only perform new music, like Cronos String Quartet. Though the government subsidization of new stuff is less than across the pond, the commissions from private sources is huge around here. In a couple of weeks we'll be engaged in reading the works of eight young composers all vying for the opportunity to have their music played by the MO.

The "emotional" comment about classical music as compared to new music is stupefying, Jack!

ML

tpter1

First, be sure to get out and support your school's music programs. Attending school board meetings, music freinds meetings, school concerts, contacting school administration are all positive and pro-active steps you can take to lend support to school music education.

Educators in the classroom need to make this music come alive for the kids. I was on my way up to the office this am to turn in my jazz band attendance, and heard one of the General Equivelency Diploma kids whistling something on his way to the bus. GED is a program for kids who are planning on dropping out or are at risk of dropping out, btw. What was he whistling? MOZART!!! Eine Kleine Nacht Musik. Did he know that? Probably not. (Missed opportunity...arrgh). Does it really matter that he knows that is by Mozart? Yes, it does. Because he now has this tune in his ear, and is going to want to hear it to be satisfied. It also gives him a greater appreciation of where things come from, and just might spark a curiosity to go find more. It goes way beyond having the top level ensemble that performs music of ridiculous difficulty. It cuts to the heart of what every human being is; who we are.

We have to, as educators, (and whe I say as educators, I am referring to EVERYONE here who performs anything at any time for any reason....because when we are performing we are educating in addition to many other things, in my view) make these pieces and their music come alive. Orchestras like Manny's, the Albany Symphony and others that have in-depth and aggressive outreach programs are playing a critical role here. How many kids know who the Marlboro man or Joe Camel are/were? Very, very many. Ask an 8th grader who Brittany Spears or Beyonce Knowles is, they'll tell you. Why? Because they see images of these people daily. They hear them daily. They are part of the cultural psyche. Next time you go to a gas station, take a look at what's eye level to the kids. That's not by chance.

I say that not to open a debate on advertising, but to relay what we are up against. If we do not pursue our marketing with the same voraciousness, we will be lost in the din. Get out in the public, those of you that are pro performers. Get into the schools and perform for assemblies for kids. Any orchestra managers here? Take a lesson from MO and Albany (NY). We have a small local per-service chamber orchestra within 15 minutes of my school. They nearly went chapter 11 this year. Why? Well, I don't remember the last time they did ANY outreach to schools. They do a children's concert with an instrument petting zoo, but that's it. Their programming is predictable...every year, the same types of concerts at the same time of year. Fall: classical period. Christmas: baroque. Spring: early romantic/late classical. Children's program. Summer pops.

More later.

Ok. Kids are working, so I can talk a bit.

Not that they are a bad orchestra...they are quite good, actually. But, pizza is good. Every night, though, gets tired. See what I mean? Adventurous programming, like discussed earlier, is a big help, too.

But back to the education thing. Educators who are in front of an ensemble need to bring to those kids (who have more desire to learn about music, because ensembles are electives) high quality music that they feel passionate about. It has to be personal, folks. It has to move the kids, and to do so, to be a real "salesman", it has to be personal for you. I do not do Disney music; not because I dislike Disney, but because it has no real holding power. It is pretty bland and sterile. And in a few years, nobody wants to play Lion King hits anymore. Same holds true for *most* movie music and alot of music by cookie-cutter composers. You all know the type, I'm sure. Those composers who use a formula, who crank out piece after piece of meaningless drivel just to fulfill a contractual obligation to a publishing company that does not want anything too racy or extreme. Since the music has little or no relevance to the kids, they figure all music is just black dots, different lengths and different volumes. Whoopee. That and a nickel MIGHT get you a piece of gum. Put a piece in front of them that shakes them; rattles their bones a bit. Makes them think and feel. Talk about that. Let them hear good music performed well by the greatest performers you can find. They'll get it, I guarantee you.

Whew. That's a long read. Sorry 'bout that. If yu made it this far, go have a coffee on me.

JackD

Manny - when I said "classical" I basically mean any orchestral music at all - we played them some Mozart, Strauss and a friend of mine dug out some really contemporary stuff (can't think of the composer at the moment). They seemed to enjoy some of the big loud moments, but they were referring to all the orchestral music we played them when they said it was "too emotional". Wasn't just a few kids, either!

That's really interesting about the commissions from private sources, and what a great oppurtunity for those 8 composers!

mazzrick

New music ensembles in the US:

New York New Music Ensemble (7 musicians, no brass, less than 10 concerts a year)

Philip Glass Ensemble

Steve Reich Ensemble

Vermont Contemporary Music Ensemble (don't laugh, they're actually bigger than the NYC one)

Meridian Arts Ensemble (brass quintet + others, Zappa and lots of new music)

American Brass Quintet (puts out a new CD every year, premier and comission a lot)

Le Nouvel Ensemble Moderne (canandian but... probably most industrious and serious group I know of on this continent)

So there isn't much, but the colleges and music schools sometimes have decent programs.

Matt

ProAm

Very interesting topic. Naxos records sponsered an essay contest a couple of years ago on essentially the same topic.

An ancillary topic for discussion might be: how did you come to be a classical music fan? Maybe we'd have some ideas on how to increase interest in it.

Me: we played a band arrangement of 1812 in high school. I liked it and bought a record (Philadelphia Orch w. Ormandy). I was successful enough at a regional band/orchestra weekend to get my first opportunity to play in the orchestra (I'd never even imagined there was such a thing as transposition). We played Berlioz March to the Scaffold and Dvorak finale to Symphony #8 (old #4). I bought those records, too.

I wonder about the American school band program these days. New music written for band (eg, Holsinger) seems to have pretty much replaced the old orchestral transcriptions. Has that affected kids being exposed to classical music?