Tootsall

Glen, don't forget de Meij. He has some remarkable music to his credit, although "apparently" writing for movie scores, is certainly challenging and will, I predict, stand the test of time. Lord of the Rings and Wind in the Willows being the two "aural stories" that I am most familiar with.

tpter1

Yes- I had the opportunity to perform LOTR a few years back. Great piece. There's also a condensed (done in collaberation with DeMeij) version that I used about 2 years ago with my hs band. Gollum is among the hardest things I've ever had to perform technically. I'm not familiar with Wind in the Willows. Should be worth checking into, though. Is there a recording?

Jimi Michiel

Two Boston-based ensembles of note:

Boston Modern Orchestra Project: http://www.bmop.org/

The Calithumpian Consort (Led by Steve Drury, based at NEC)

And one in New York:

American Symphony Orchestra-http://www.americansymphony.org/ (Led by Leon Botstein-this guy is a genious and this orchestra has some of the most interesting programming I've ever seen).

cornetguy

i agree, but a lot of the problem is the people in the elementary schools, that want the numbers and don't care what the instrumentation winds up being at the senior high. i would like to see the junior and senior high directors take more of an interest in the feeder programs. the one district i sub in that all of jr and sr high teachers have to go to the elementaries (what happened was the school board got tired of them bitching about the quality of the incomming players) the instrumentation problems are less other then clarinets and double reeds. the district i did my student teaching in when the high school directors were not in class, they were at the displays with the elementary teachers.

noonan

I've enjoyed reading the many responses. I was intrigued by Pat's post describling Bard College and their double-degree requirement. Having a couple performance degrees myself, I always found my elective requirements to be a real joke. Most times the discussion about audience cultivation centers on, "How can we bring them to us?" Efforts like the program at Bard seek to develop and cultivate musicians with a wide angle view of the world and how art can serve it. I think there will always be a market for the rare artist who can engage with his/her culture on its own terms while maintaining integrity to one's own self. This might be a more abstract suggestion than attending a school board meeting and fighting for your music program, but both are vital to the future.

Just to clarify- I do not own a copy of Disney's Mulan, nor any other Disney film for that matter. I'm not suggesting in any way that US orchestras should all add it to their seasons. I am saying that we should make an effort to use the familiar to bridge it to the unfamiliar for students. All of us would agree that Ein Heldenleben is a better piece of music than Lion King. (I hope) Could you explain to a group of students why? Would they be convinced? It can be hard to articulate something like this because we think it should be intuitive, but to 5th graders it's not. Just a thought.

Carl

ecarroll

(laughing)

Zeb,

Typical that I leave the country for a few weeks and a topic that actually generates interest pops up here. Please forgive my tardiness and thanks Manny for letting people know that I was away.

Two things pop quickly to mind. I'll read the many replies tonight and chime in again, if necessary.

Firstly, let's revisit the thread called Continental Shift from last January. It started to discuss Allan Kozinn's piece in the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/ar...ic/15kozi.html) which highlights the programming of contemporary music as a contributing factor in the huge success that the Los Angeles Philharmonic is enjoying in drawing audiences to their fabulous new hall. The perfect fit, in my opinion. Please read the article and comment? It kind of died on the vine last time.

Secondly, let's look at the example of the London Sinfonietta (an absolutely fabulous orchestra, perhaps Britains best?) who play a huge number of kiddie concerts as part of their mission. What makes them different is that they would NEVER think of playing anything but their hardest repertoire, judging accurately (in my opinion) that kids don't have Mozartian sensiblilties yet and this lack of aural prejudice alows them to just listen and react. . . which they often do with tremendous enthusiasm to scores by Boulez, Messiaen, Ades, (and new stuff as well). They tell mom and dad how great what they heard was and (ocasionally)mom and dad buy a ticket at the Queen Elizabeth Hall.

Thanks for starting this, Zeb. Let's keep it boiling?

EC

TPT81

Unfortunately, I was unable to open the nytimes article. But, I do like your comment about programming challenging rep for children's concerts. It seems to me that there are a few different views being expressed by the posts in this thread. Some feel that we need to educate youth before they hear music by people like Boulez, Stockhausen... But, the London Sinfonietta is successful by just letting them react. Perhaps what is needed is a middle ground. Maybe orchestras should program some of the timeless masterworks, as well as the newer creations. That way, young people get exposure to both, and can decide for themselves.

I know that many people feel that audiences have heard Beethoven 5 too many times, and are sick of it. However, to young people, this can be just as new as anything written today. I do want to expose young people to new, exciting music, but also think we should show them the pieces that have persisted. Though some pieces may seem cliched and overplayed, there is a reason we still hear them.

Zeb

mazzrick

Zeb,

What's the whole scene like in China?

Matt

noonan

Ed- thanks for reposting the article, "Continental Shift." I had a couple of questions regarding it- It seems like the musicians, conductor, and management share a common philosophy- why is that such a rarity? Also, in regards to the programming- Salonen's experience as a composer gives him a unique perspective on new music. How much of the success of the LA Phil and their programming can be attributed directly to the music director's unique background? Could another orchestra adopt the same philosophy with the same results, or does each organization have to find its own niche? Thanks,

Carl

ecarroll

Carl,

Every orchestra is a different organism: different personalities, different traditions, different expectations. Perhaps Mr. Clean will chime in about the LAPhil (Jim?). I'm not a member so have a non-member's perspective, but would certainly imagine that E-P's dual life as a composer/conductor (think Lennie) plays some sort of roll in the mindset there.

I'm that some orchestras have changed their tack over the years. Burton's Bernstein biography reminds us that 70+% of Lennie's programming during his tenure at the NYPhil was contemporary music (although a pretty pedestrian lot such as David Diamond, etc.). The NYPhil is cited in Continental Shift as now having some of the most traditional programming in the country today (and lots of empty seats).

Interesting stuff.

Best,
EC