ecarroll

TMers,

I'm reading your replies with great interest. Thank you for contributing so thoughtfully and keep 'em coming!

A note to Matt: you are kind of a dork.

Best,
EC (D2)

Vulgano Brother

If I'm getting a general drift here, it sounds something like this: "Modern __________ (fill in the blank) has destroyed ___________ (fill in the blank)." I would like to add the question "Why?" What needs do X-Boxes, MP3's and the like fill that the trumpet doesn't? While trumpet fulfills most of my personal needs (not all, being the gutter level Vulgano that I am), whose needs am I fulfilling by playing trumpet? Or am I simply a narcicist playing a loud instrument saying "hey girls, look at me?"

Is society at fault, or are we?

Smithi20

Walk into any class of 8 year olds and play the trumpet in front of them, reflecting the energy and vitality that they have, and they will be thrilled! That´s what I would encourage all TMers who can, to do! Let´s not forget that this is an exciting instument, and creates a noise that the kids can get off on.... loud and vocal, just like playtime! Also, at that age kids have no problem with abstaction, so it´s easier to "speak" to them (especially rude noises!). My friend Oren Marshall is very gifted at this type of work... you may have met him in London Ed, he´s a very special Tuba player.

And now I also have to comment about development, and I´m sorry if I´m seeming heavy handed (says he modestly!) but these are the facts... I had a grandfather who played in the big bands of the 30´s, his brother toured with Louis Armstrong, and my couisin was Jimmie Deuchar... all fantastic trumpet players and all of their time. I was lucky to be in England with my Grandfather (after that I was in Ireland) and he tought me wonderful basics... I have since played jazz, in indie rock bands, electro'acoustic music, and have ended up concentrating (for there is a lot of it involved, I can assure you!) on freely improvised music for the last 17 years, and have had the great honour of playing with many of the originators of that music (John Stevens, Derek Bailey etc..) so I would say that I am of my time, as much as I can be! But for me this is a natural state of affairs.

I believe there has been a bottleneck, for many years, where talented players develop through the educational system (anywhere) and are then given extremely limited options to forward their "career". It´s all far too structured for me! All instrumentalists should also be taught to sing (for wind players this is an advantage!) and should be encouraged to compose at an early age... my son, 10, is a flute player (not my choice, the little rebel!) and has written a theme song to an imaginary film we´ll never make, but oh!

Educators (and, by the way, I´m not one of them!) need to adapt with the times.... that playstation tune the kids hear over and over again... play it! and if we´re really in a time where we don´t know what motivates, we need to ask the kids, and their gift will eventually centre itself. Lets not forget, we´re all passionate trumpet players on this site, but not everyone wants to play the trumpet! All people who play instrumets should not just be considered future interpreters, but MUSICIANS, and be told that their individual expression is an extremely powerful thing, when developed.

So I´ve skimmed a couple of topics, but here´s the bombshell. I feel very disappointed that the trumpet player with the highest profile in the world, and a most glorious technique, has abandoned any thought of furthering the repertoire, since he has the most clout to commission pieces from the great composers of today. I am of course referring to Wynton......

Vulgano Brother

I once played Carmina Burana in the marketplace in Freiburg in front of an estimated 20,000-30,000 people, about the same number that would show up for one of FC Freiburg's soccer matches. Maybe if soccer were more popular...

rowuk

Smithi,
sorry if this seems like a flame, but I have a problem with this "opinion"!
Have you seen Wyntons education videos, read his book? Who says that it is Wyntons call in life to meet your "commissions" standards? I consider Wynton an extremely positive influence on kids, playing and jazz in general. Your assumption that he has abandoned anything is exactly that - an unfounded assumption on YOUR part. Look at his roster of CDs and the original compositions. Maybe you need heartburn with Dave Brubeck after centuries of Take 5, but Wynton? You are way off on that count! One does not need to "like" his jazz style to appreciate what he has done ESPECIALLY in the education and influence of young players!

The original thread topic dealt with the erosion of young playing in America. What "commissions" will solve that problem? Other than the private lessons that I give, I am not an educator. In many cases they are the ONLY ones keeping this boat afloat. Wyntons education videos can be a VERY helpful addition to any music program!

ckallmyer

Smithi-

Great comments. You have articulated some accurate points--my favorites are above. Kids do have an easier time with abstraction-being uninhibited by years of popular musics. To see a swell in art-music listenership, I would like to see students confronted with art-music at an early age. (free improvisation, chamber works by new composers, extended techniques, multi-media works, etc. . . ). Wouldn't it be cool if kids were instructed to improvise in band class? what would happen? What if kids had an influence that said--"here is a graphic score. its cool to play graphic notation."

I think what Smithi is trying to say is wouldn't it be a help if Wynton(in all his talent and influence) said, "Here is a piece written for me by one of the great composers of our time-check it out. This stuff is pretty cool." The one nice thing about Wynton doing his own thing though--is that it leaves more room for me/us/others to fill that void. Additionally-I do agree with Rowuk that it isn't Wynton's job to commission pieces. He has his own artistic vision that he has to follow(doing jazz, writing oratorio, etc. . .)--and I have to respect that(I would like to get inside his head though). But Smithi is saying something that I am also really frusterated with. I think we should move on from this particular subject though.

As a side point, I saw his videos from a student perspective when I was in the 7th grade. eh. They were ok. I appreciate his education work as a teacher more than I did as a student.

A bit about me:
I grew up playing bass guitar in punk bands in washington dc. When I went to my undergrad to study music ed/trumpet I gave myself over to orchestral music, although that was the first time I had ever hear it. I eventually quit education studies and now I go to CalArts, study with EC, and play music I want to play--self directed in my rep. and ensembles. When kids do self-directed work it makes the deepest impression. I do believe that introducing art music to kids could be some of the best work we can do to help our own cause and help them grow up to be more active listeners than their parents. Or else, they might fall further to the X-Box or my favorite--guitar hero. 'Don't play real instruments, kids. We got em right here hooked up to the TV!---its all you need to make REAL music!'

great discussion,

-chris


'My music is best understood by children and animals'
-Stravinsky

ecarroll

TMers,

For the record, Leonard Bernstein accepted a commission to write a trumpet concerto for Wynton. Sadly he passed on before starting it.

Best,
EC

CGUM

Thought I'd send this link your way.

Welcome to SupportMusic.com

It has some good advice on how to go about working with music education if you're in the community.


"And they say time changes all things, but you actually have to change them yourself." - Andy Warhol


Ed,
Are you going to be in LA in april?

Eeviac

I have a guitar and if I worked on that would be a profitable street player much sooner I think, since my voice may not be that great but at least I can sing in tune. But I like the trumpet better.

trumpetdad

Two ideas, one of which the trumpet community doesn't have much control over, and one that we could perhaps make a difference on:

1. Too much homework. School for ambitious kids these days involves 7 hours of classtime, followed by 2-3 hours of written homework. I'm not opposing homework altogether, and I think outside reading and studying is important. However, too often modern written homework is a subsitute for inspired teaching, not a supplement, and is more about doing assignments for the sake of doing assignments. Kids with great organization skills and mental stamina succeed best -- they get top marks, stature and encouragement. However, great organization minds are not always very artistic! Kids without great organizational skills these days can easily get discouraged, and discouraged kids sometimes drop out of music too. Even for the high-organization kids with musical ability, after a 10-hour workday, you just want to veg out. TV, video, games and facebook/myspace time fill in the down time gaps. Few have the energy to practice an instrument seriously -- a high-energy endeavor -- after that kind of day.

For our part, trumpet players can be their own worst enemies, giving people (including kids) the idea that trumpet playing is all about the loudest, weirdest noises. Other posts here have gone on about the horrible racket at trumpet displays. I went to ITG last year and it was embarrassing. Couldn't get close to the displays without earplugs. One of the people working a display (an occasional poster here) described it as "aural terrorism."

I know this will be somewhat offensive to some musicians here, but sometimes our choice of music at competitions gets a little weird too. Stuff that can be pretty hard on the ears, especially if not played by an absolute master.

I sometimes wish more young students were started on the cornet, which by its nature (with the proper mouthpeice) has a softer, gentler, sound that makes it easier to play lyrically. Might be a good way to start the education process, rather than on a student trumpets, which often sound blatty in elementary and junior high bands (even some high schools). (We already have enough trouble with squeaky clarinets and out-of-tune flutes turning kids off from band!)

I appreciate great lead playing and (some) of the ultra-modern music, but I think we may have overdone the higher, louder, more atonal and unrhythmic thing, and as teachers and example setters, we could do a lot more to show that trumpet playing can also be about melody and lyricism and beauty.

Just, as they say, my humble opinion.