ckallmyer

This is a really important and interesting discussion, and I'd like it to continue if anyone has more to contribute.

As a young person, I have ideas coming fresh out of the school system. Also I studied music education for two years in my undergrad(I quit-but you can guess why by reading my stuff below). To sum up some of my thoughts:

Generally, I think that music classes should be driven periodically by student's interests in popular genres. I think that these popular genres can be used as a bridge to address other music such as band music, jazz, or classical. In this way, students can be musically bi-lingual, learning to translate musical concepts from their primary language or popular music to their secondary language of concert band music. It helps them to have a tangible grip.

However, I'd be interested to hear parents perspectives on the issue of their children's involvement in music/brass. As trumpet players what do you want your kids to be able to get out of their music educations? Would you hate it if they listened to hip-hop in their band class?

My thoughts on what I want this generation to learn in music classes:
Lets face it, there are not the jobs there used to be--so we are not out to educate a busting new generation of pro trumpet players. I think we should be trying to educate a generation of listeners, appreciators, and musically aware people. Otherwise, no one is there to listen when we perform.

thoughts?

-chris

Adam Smith

I am a trumpet performance major. However, I am transferring and changing my major. Countless others from my school, ed. and performance are changing as well. Just last week two fellow trumpet players changed their majors to things unrelated to music. One of these players was very talented and was deciding between transferring to rice or Indiana for trumpet performance. Both these players both knew how to play the trumpet, they had been exposed to all kinds of music (soloing, orchestral trumpet excerpts, etc.). Why they quit, I don't know. But it is a rising trend. When I was in 7th grade, we had 13 trumpets in the advanced band. When I was a freshman in High school, we had 5 freshman come in. My sister was in 8th grade last year and they had 4 trumpets. Anyway, I never really was taught to play the trumpet. I picked it up in middle school (band or choir and I didnt want to sing) and have just become decent on my own. I stuck with it because of my personality and my friends in band but I was never really dedicated to the trumpet until college. I had great band directors, but in spite of that we were never urged to go to concerts, listen to music, exposed to works for our instrument (I didn't know any standard trumpet lit until college). This might be due in part to the fact that there is not that much going on in this area, especially to an unmotivated middle/high school kid. But I was never really exposed to much real music. Despite this I have never liked country, pop, or rap. I listened to mostly classic rock until I was a junior. I fell in love with jazz during the summer before my junior year in high school. I found a few albums my parents had (mingus-tijuana moods/ getz- sweet rain/ and dexter gordon - go). I joined the jazz band and started to listen to all sorts of music and started wanting to get better at trumpet. Those albums changed my life. I don't think there was anything particular about those albums, they just happened to be some of the first jazz I heard. What if my parents played those albums when I was younger, would that have changed anything?
Chris I agree with you. In theory class, we don't learn from modern music, we learn from 18th century music. We learn rules that are no longer used today, and they are strictly enforced. We don't even get a chance to venture outside these guidelines. Which I suppose these rules could be beneficial to learning theory but it is boring and does not spark any interest. I myself bought a different theory book. And have been reading it. It features examples from more recent music. I can connect and learn better while using this book in conjunction with what I am being taught in the classroom.
Someone posted this link a while ago but I think it speaks to your last thought.
Pearls Before Breakfast - washingtonpost.com
I personally would be a little late to work.
Would I be safe to say that if you grew up in a musically rich household, you would at least, be able to recognize the level of mr. bell's musicality and pay him more attention than most of the passers by? Even if you didn't know who he was.
I just hope to provide an environment rich with music and musical opportunities for my children.

Adam Smith

Sorry thats so long, I just sort of started talking.

CGUM

I, and it seems a number of folks, have been watching this thread develop. I've been reluctant to post since this thread is close the current path I am on. I really have no advice or ideas for the situation in Dartmouth or in California. But I wish those places the best of luck. Every community is so different and unique to it's demographic that although we can follow the examples of others that shouldn't be the end. We need to figure out how we can fit into the larger picture to make it better.

I got back from a lunch with an old teacher and we touched upon this topic. One thing that he said that struck me was we need to put the meaning back into music. People are looking for meaning in this world and it's really up to us to do it with our gifts, whether it be performing, educating or perhaps the most complete way is a combination of the two.

serving music,
Charlie

ecarroll

Charlie,

I've read Mike's comments on Beethoven's 9th elsewhere and believe that he's right (assuming this was the basis of your conversation?).

Right on, brother Gum. This is a very good point and rarely made. Each community (and our relationship to it) is very different.

Best and still watching with great interest,
EC

trumpetdad

"However, I'd be interested to hear parents perspectives on the issue of their children's involvement in music/brass. As trumpet players what do you want your kids to be able to get out of their music educations?"

Chris -- I'd like to take a crack at these questions from the point of view of a parent with a high school player looking toward college or conservatory. I'd also like to turn the question back to the forum participants in general.

First, I think music (and sports) can be a huge source of emotional release for kids as they pass through a high-pressure school environment. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm worried that academic pressure sometimes forces kids without great organizational skills to drop music (or sports) because there isn't enough time in their days to do music and keep up with their school work, and I think this can be a real mistake for some kids.

So I guess I agree with you that it's very important to get more kids involved in these sorts of "release activities" -- including adjusting music education among younger kids toward the popular styles to get them interested, if that's what it takes. In an ideal world, I think high school students should be able to take an hour a day out of academics to study folk, rock, gospel, small-combo jazz, rap or hip-hop etc. -- if that's where their musical interests lie -- in addition to traditional wind ensemble, jazz big band or orchestra. Ideally, the kids would need coaches, sort of like chamber music coaches in classical music education, and facilities and resources would obviously be an issue. You'd have to have volunteers with specialized musical skills come in to help out -- band directors can't do everything! And obviously, it's hard to imagine organizing rehearsal space for rock bands with full drum kits -- clearly there'd have to be some extreme compromises on volume.

I know this sort of thinking may seem really far-fetched, and that some schools can't afford even a jazz band program or an orchestra. But even if it couldn't be organized as part of regular school, it could be great after-school activity (in addition to sports) for a visionary principal and band director to organize for the kids, especially in areas where outside-of-school musical opportunities are more limited.

As for my question, I'm wondering what forum participants think about the breadth of their educations at music schools and conservatories. Although high school kids can (and do) change their minds, I'm pretty certain mine wants to do nothing but music, and is virtually certain to only pursue music as a career. I don't think a double major is in the cards.

So I'm looking for a school that would allow very eclectic musical education: modern orchestral-style playing, as well as maybe baroque music, music scholarship, new music development, improvisation and jazz, maybe even voice, conducting, etc. I have no idea which directions my kid might eventually head toward, but it seems to me that at the undergrad level anyway, the more diverse the educational possibilities, the better.

I don't want to start arguments about which music schools are better than others, but I'd be interested in students' and teachers' insights in which sort of programs seem to be more compartmentalized on learning to play trumpet as well as possible vs. programs that might be more allowing of kids studying a wider variety of musical skills. Sort of narrower education in playing the trumpets as well as possible vs. a broader education on being the best musician possible with trumpet as a main instrument.

Thanks in advance.

Vulgano Brother

For the dedicated player,All-State bands and orchestras offer important playing opportunities; there are a number of youth orchestras that cross over district lines. Worst case scenerio--a kid in Montana learning to play from his non-trumpeting father--what chance do they have? Ask Alan Vizzutti.

CGUM

Ed,

Actually, it was my middle school band teacher.

Though I love that Mike was able to finally experience that feeling of connecting to the audience, especially here. Not to lead the conversation in a different direction one of the last issues of Brass Bulletin had a really interesting article about the performer/audience relationship. I wonder if there is a way to dig it up


C