trumpetnick

Dear Ed and folks,

As I am preparing the Haydn concerto for a performance in November, therefore I try to find the answer of some questions that I always had as far as "authentic" performance practice of Hummel and Haydn is concerned.
On of those is about...

THRILLS

1. How do you start the thrill:

a/ Do you start it on the upper or the lower note? Why?
Many trumpeters (Maurice Andre is just on among many others) start the thrill on by the upper note, but I always thought, that this was rather the baroque way. My former teacher was advocating to start by the lower note (as this is classical as opposed to baroque) and I have found this very thoughtful, but never found anyone else doing it that way.

b/ Speed and rhytm

Do you start your thrills slower and getting faster afterwards on long note thrills? Do you measure exactly the value of the notes for every beat?
Example: Start with double crochets, than double crochet triplets etc or just go faster without worrying about the exact timing of every note?

mazzrick

Ed, sorry for cutting, but I'm not giving an opinion, just making some points.

Argument for from above:

It is important to study the treatises of J. J. Quantz, C. P. E. Bach, and Leopold Mozart from 1752, 1753, and 1756, respectively for this argument. But briefly, here the instructions of Leopold Mozart, in his Violinschule of 1756, "A Treatise on the Fundamental Principles of Violin Playing", Oxford, 1948: "The beginning and the end of a trill may be made in various ways. It can begin at once with the upper note downwards. But it can also be prepared by a descending appoggiatura which is suspended rather longer, or by an ascending appoggiatura...." He suggests that the lower-note start is good at cadences. A little later, he says "All short trills are played with a quick appoggiatura [from above] and a turn."

Argument for from the main note:

The main theme and historically important motive was the trumpet's newfound ability to place a scale and thus the opening three notes of the exposition, in bar 37, half note Eb... F... G... (concert pitch). The first trill that happens comes on the response motive to that in bar 43, Bb... Ab (trill)... G. So trilling from the Ab emphasizes the thematic 1.2.3... 3.2.1. Also, later with the most highly thematic trilled section in bar 60, the Bb... C (trill)... D... Eb (trill)... F obviously outline a 1..2..3..4..5.. motive and trilling from the main note demonstrates that. So motivically you should start on the main note. However, note that in the cadential trill at the end of the exposition in bar 82, in order to close the exposition (that opened with 1..2..3..) with 3...2...1... in the dominant key (Bb) you would need to start the trill on the upper appogiatura of D to stay consistent. From a modulatory standpoint, doing the trill in this fashion outlines the classical compositional form that this piece shows so well.

My personal opinion is who cares as long as you have a reason and it sounds like you have a reason but those are my evidence of passing music history and music theory.

Matt

ecarroll

You nailed it in one, Matt. Trills from above interrupt the line. I would argue that cadential trills should start on the original note in the classical period as well and suggest that my students do them this way.

Baroque trills (upper neighbor, on the beat) create a tension/resolution that parallels the many symbolisms found in this particular art. Also note the many appoggiaturi found within compositions from this period. Tension/resolution, or musical "sighing", was a common compositional technique during the baroque.

As for rules, treatises (the ones you mention are from the Rococ(c)o, and might be a tad early for this discussion...the classical period was an attempt to break the bonds of the baroque), and imitation of recordings, I suggest that each musician simply take time to study the composition at hand. Haydn's trumpet concerto was the last symphonic piece by a master composer and there's ample Haydn music to take a look at as well.

Nick, regarding the speed of trills, make them sound fluid. Nothing more, nothing less.

TMers, please (please) resist short cuts with music that you consider part of your personal repertoire. Make your own choices based on what you know, not on what others have done before you.

Again, good answer, Matt.

Best,
EC
(Who remembers "it's full of thrill and chills, of highs and lows, it's all in the game of Life"?)

Hags888

Hey trumpetnick...I apologize in advance...I just couldn't resist.

How DOES one start "The Thrill"? For me, music is always most thrilling when it leaves the audience on the edge of their seat, begging for more. I find that the best way to get this started, is to march on stage wearing a cape. A handlebar mustache also adds a little excitement to the show. But the main thing is, YOU are in control and you have to let the audience know it. I find that making the trumpet magically appear from behind a piece of silk cloth before you play the Haydn gets the audience primed for the big thrill. Also, it helps if before you walk on stage the house lights are low with the Rocky theme song blaring through the house speakers. The spotlights should be spinning wildly right before you make your big entrance, at which point they will be focused directly on you. While playing it helps to stand with your feet shoulder-width apart, knees slightly bent and with the horn pointed up at a 45-degree angle. During the cadenza, feel free to hop around stage doing a spinning move during the cadential trill (which, who knows whether you start it from above?).

If that doesn't make for a thrilling performance of the Haydn...I don't know what will. :P

rowuk

OOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhh Hags,
what ever happened to just playing so that everybody gets goosebumps?

Actually Michael Jackson did a tune about that, it is called "Triller"

Wildman

If you really want to be authentic make sure that if you get sick don't take any antibiotics. If you go to the dentist, no novacaine.

Have fun.