Vulgano Brother

Nice thread, Ed!

Diversity in an orchestral setting seems like a pretty darn oxymoronic thing these days, and has given me some points to ponder:

How original could one be with the Promenade to Pictures or Mahler 5 opening at an audition and still get the job?

What professional orchestras can afford to spend the time rehearsing and learning a truly new piece? Who would come to the performances?

Where can we find someone who says to us, "Here is a bunch of money--please provide some diverse music for us?"

The funny thing with "classical" music is that the rules are so rigid that one must step outside the genre to be truly original, and for us in America, that equals jazz.

When and if jazz can function with true diversity, maybe classical can follow.

Thanks again for your thoughts--Gonna go work on some ii-V-I exercises now.

tptshark

I am reminded of the Clarke Terry quote from the beginning of Hal Crook's book, How to Improvise: "Imitate. Assimilate. Innovate"

I think it is essential for students to imitate the masters and gain a strong sense of the tradition inherent in the development of our art. But i think this needs to be done with the goal of striving towards innovation. Sadly, i think the last stage of Mr. Terry's equation is often overlooked.

... my 2 cents

- Adrian

ecarroll

Vulg,

Responding in order:

#1 Thank you. I find topics like this far more instructive than which trumpet should be played on which etude.

#2 My experience behind the screen has led me to the conclusion that many committees pay close attention whenever somebody plays a different tempo and with different motion than Phil does on his CD. This is far from criticism of Phil -- he sounds marvelous -- but even he would play those passages differently if re-recorded today. Phil's an evolving musician, and I'm certain that he's as dismayed as I am at all of the copycats out there (hint: they rarely advance).

#3 The LA Phil and San Francisco Symphony have spent the necessary time learning new large-scale works over the past few seasons. As mentioned here last year, Esa-Pekka programmed new music 70% of the time and it's next to impossible to buy tickets at the Disney Hall. Even jaded I finds this to be very impressive. Maybe it's time for more orchestras to take the diversity bit between their teeth?

#4 I have no leads to date, other than individual and corporate commissions. Please let me know when you find one and I'll play 2nd?

#5 I think this is going a bit far but I understand completely where you're coming from. As a side bar, free improv provides the same outlet and it's being done most everywhere these days (see Stockhausen, Markus, for a brilliant career totally committed to this particular art form).

#6 Sure. Why not?

Best,
EC

ecarroll

Gday, Adrian

Perfectly said and thanks for the reminder.

You have a few wonderfully original trumpeters in Australia, of course. Follow carefully the career of Tristram Williams. He's absolutely original in voice, trying to become so in repertoire (playing a wide variety of new musics and adding more as we "speak", and he's a totally committed musician.

Cheers,
EC,

(I've just noted that this is my thousandth post. Is there a prize?)

rowuk

To become originals, we have to broaden our spectrum.
We need to take time and learn more about the composers and compositions and not just assume that the brilliant players before us have done all of that work for us.
Using Phil Smith or Maurice André as examples: if it is good enough for them it is NOT necessarily good enough for anyone else. What they play fits their personalities, and that cannot be successfully superimposed on another soul.
If we eliminate the word "definitive" from our vocabulary, we have taken at least a good first step.

tptshark

G'day Ed,

You're absolutely right. Sometimes i think the moderate isolation down here works in our favour in nurturing originality, free from the "fishbowl" effect.

Other guys for people to look out for would be Dave Elton in the orchestral field, and Scott Tinkler in the jazz field.

Great thread!

Cheers,
Adrian -iii<

Vulgano Brother

Got to experience Markus at a medieval closter in Germany. Wow!

Did quite a bit of free improv while studying (it was the late 70's and we called them "space duets"), and found it to be a fantastic way to lock into and get inside the head of another player--sound, intonation and phrasing improved greatly, but somehow it was viewed as "weird," "fun" and not "real" practice time. Are there any (many) players/teachers/coaches that tout free improv, or is it so esoteric that only a few players discover it? Curious..

TrentAustin

Free improv is a must in my studio, FWIW.

Markus is an amazing talent in every way. wow!

ecarroll

Vulg,

I was a student in the 70s myself and nobody was freely improvising anyplace that I was aware of (note that I was pretty closed-minded about good & bad as a young man and wasn't exactly seeking it). It has exploded across many music schools on both sides of the Atlantic since the early 90s. Free improv is a requirement for all BFA and MFA students at CalArts. There's someone on the faculty at McGill handling it as well.

We're musicians, afterall, and might as well show it on occasion!

My old New York Trumpet Ensemble (now directed by Mark Gould) is only improvising these days. FAR better than playing those tunes that go (you know).

Best,
EC

ilikethetrumpet

Speaking of trumpeting diversity, how about Kenny Wheeler? There's a guy who never plays the same note twice, but still maintains a very active practice regimen and has music all the way over the map. What makes him diverse, besides the strange zigs and zags of his tunes (kind of where Hindemith and Don Cherry meet in the middle), is that he is ugly when you expect him to be pretty and breathtakingly lovely where others would be crass or academic. He's cultivated and controlled his own entire vocabulary of absolutely smooth smith-watkins tone with raucous overshoots, and he can sound absolutely wild or impeccably precise at a moment's notice. His albums range from jams to sonatas to orchestral suites to small-group chamber music with the nuance and sophistication of Brahms.


He's a very, very, very quiet and reticent man, and I saw him endure an adoring masterclass of the sort that very quiet men tend to hate. He told a slow story for five minutes for how he found his "voice" as a player. He could "speak" bebop but not as well as the other guys, and he was frustrated and thinking of hanging it up in the late 1960s when he came upon a dingy out of the way empty London club where guys were "going berserk." "And so I went berserk too...and I quite liked it...So I kept coming back there... and kept going berserk."