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Tootsall · 11-14-2003, 11:46 PM

OK....Alex has at least some of his horns built to spec by Kanstul. Flip has some of HIS horns built to spec by Kanstul. Alex takes them and distributes them "as received" from a factory which we accept to make a quality product. Flip takes horns built to HIS spec and goes over them with a fine-tooth comb before distributing them.

Flip undoubtedly has a "no-expenses barred" approach to the horns HE buys. Alex undoubtedly has a "watch the cost...this is my market price range" approach.

Flip plays trumpet professionally. Alex sells trumpets professionally (and guitars and whatever else he can get contracted with his brand names stamped on them).

I know and most of you know that the vast majority of household appliances come from the same factories but have different "brands" applied to them by the actual manufacturer. The standards of quality are simply a function of whatever has been negotiated and contracted by the "brand name holder" (be it Sears, WalMart, or whatever).

I believe Jack Kanstul when he mentions in his forum that the "best" combinations are saved for themselves (K-labelled). Flip's sales are undoubtedly small enough (limited by how many horns Flip can personally hand-tweak) that he is not a threat to Kanstul's direct marketing efforts. Therefore there should be no question that there is a higher degree of inspection/quality of material/ cost of manufacture involved in the WT so it is GOING TO BE A BETTER HORN. So what?

The "what" is that a comparison between the Zeus and the WT isn't fair. The price ranges are completely different and, unless I miss my guess, the cost of getting the horn into a customer's hands are in completely different ball parks. Yet it has not been Flip who has initiated the comparison! Alex has claimed that the ZG is the greatest thing since sliced bread and the ZZ is even better and will make the other superhorn makers green with envy! So of course Flip will take the opportunity to test the competition out. Why not? He did NOT say "the WT is better than the ZZ". He did NOT say "the WT is a better value for your dollar than the ZZ". He simply said what he felt when he tried one, he acknowledge that it was a prototype, and that he was offered the opportunity to try one because he was cautioned (and I'll paraphrase here) that his customers may ask him "why should i pay so much for a WT when I can buy the Z for so much less money"?

Is that sinister? Unfair? Hey, there are a few WTs out there for folks to AB test against a ZG..unless I miss my guess it's already happened...more than once. The ZZ is a new horn but is apparently already "going the rounds" to see what "bits and pieces" might need to be selected from different barrels at the factory. (I don't mean that literally but you get the idea).

Oh...the bell size? 5-1/4" happens to be the same as the Mariachi.

11-14-2003, 11:46 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tootsall Fortissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Yee HAW! Posts: 4,641	OK....Alex has at least some of his horns built to spec by Kanstul. Flip has some of HIS horns built to spec by Kanstul. Alex takes them and distributes them "as received" from a factory which we accept to make a quality product. Flip takes horns built to HIS spec and goes over them with a fine-tooth comb before distributing them. Flip undoubtedly has a "no-expenses barred" approach to the horns HE buys. Alex undoubtedly has a "watch the cost...this is my market price range" approach. Flip plays trumpet professionally. Alex sells trumpets professionally (and guitars and whatever else he can get contracted with his brand names stamped on them). I know and most of you know that the vast majority of household appliances come from the same factories but have different "brands" applied to them by the actual manufacturer. The standards of quality are simply a function of whatever has been negotiated and contracted by the "brand name holder" (be it Sears, WalMart, or whatever). I believe Jack Kanstul when he mentions in his forum that the "best" combinations are saved for themselves (K-labelled). Flip's sales are undoubtedly small enough (limited by how many horns Flip can personally hand-tweak) that he is not a threat to Kanstul's direct marketing efforts. Therefore there should be no question that there is a higher degree of inspection/quality of material/ cost of manufacture involved in the WT so it is GOING TO BE A BETTER HORN. So what? The "what" is that a comparison between the Zeus and the WT isn't fair. The price ranges are completely different and, unless I miss my guess, the cost of getting the horn into a customer's hands are in completely different ball parks. Yet it has not been Flip who has initiated the comparison! Alex has claimed that the ZG is the greatest thing since sliced bread and the ZZ is even better and will make the other superhorn makers green with envy! So of course Flip will take the opportunity to test the competition out. Why not? He did NOT say "the WT is better than the ZZ". He did NOT say "the WT is a better value for your dollar than the ZZ". He simply said what he felt when he tried one, he acknowledge that it was a prototype, and that he was offered the opportunity to try one because he was cautioned (and I'll paraphrase here) that his customers may ask him "why should i pay so much for a WT when I can buy the Z for so much less money"? Is that sinister? Unfair? Hey, there are a few WTs out there for folks to AB test against a ZG..unless I miss my guess it's already happened...more than once. The ZZ is a new horn but is apparently already "going the rounds" to see what "bits and pieces" might need to be selected from different barrels at the factory. (I don't mean that literally but you get the idea). Oh...the bell size? 5-1/4" happens to be the same as the Mariachi.