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trickg · 12-04-2003, 10:04 AM

Ok, my knowledge here is somewhat limited. I wish my father were still alive, he could really give you the lowdown on all of these questions because he probably forgot more stuff about gunsmithing, reloading, ballistics, shooting, etc, than I'll ever know. Here's my best shot:

Simmons scopes. From what I know, they aren't going to be quite as nice as a Leupold, which I consider the beginning point of the high end scopes (you have brands like Swarovski and Unertl toward the top of that list with prices at $1000+) but it is certainly going to give you great quality for your dollar. The optics probably arent going to be as good, but unless you are looking for serious long range accuracy, you will probably be fine with a Simmons and you will save yourself a buck or two. Plus the 44 mm objective lens on the Simmons .44 Magnum will offer similar light gather properties than say a 40 mm objective lens on a scope with more expensive optics. If you are going to be using your .243 for deer or woodchucking, this will probably be fine. I only suggested the Leupold Rifleman because of the new combination of Leupold accuracy and quality with a lower price.

Target/protection pistols. If you are looking for a fun, inexpensive to shoot pistol, it's hard to go wrong with a Ruger Mark II in .22 caliber. Cheap to shoot, easy to clean, accurate, however, for protection, while it is a handgun, it's not going to have the kind of stopping power that a larger caliber will. If stopping power is what you want, go with a 1911 clone (Colt 1911A1) in .45 caliber. Dad was a police officer for 31 years and really didn't have much use for the 9 mm pistols. He said that in the field, the FBI had some pretty negative experiences with the 9 mm in that it just didn't stop assailants and some agents ended up being killed as a direct result of that lack of stopping power. (He had gone through the FBI academy's peace officer program, a four month course at Quantico, the end result was that the program extended the FBI's network nationwide) He was a HUGE fan of the .45, although he had nothing against carrying a .357, .41 or .44 magnums. If you are going to go with a .45, Kimber probably makes the best of the 1911 clones, although Para Ordinance used to offer one in double action with either a 7 or 14 round magazine, depending on how wide you wanted the grip to be. I'm not sure if they still make that one though. Personally, I like Smith and Wesson revolvers because of their ease of operation and ease of maintenance, but I have looked at the Sig and Walther pistols. I know a couple of people that own Sigs and they really like them.

.40 Caliber. As for the .40 caliber, it's a compromise of size to stopping power, and although I really can't tell you much about that, from everything I've heard, it's a formidable round.

Composite Handguns. On the subject of guns using polymers and composite materials, I think that it comes down to a weight issue more than anything else. If you have to carry a sidearm all day, like most people who are issued Glocks do, it simply makes your sidearm a little easier to bear, and to hold steady. I have never cared for the Glock personally, but I know a lot of guys that have had them and really liked them. Talk about a gun that has withstood all the nasty testing thrown at it and come out smiling, the Glock is that handgun. There is one thing to keep in mind though. If you are shooting a lightweight handgun in a heavy caliber, recoil is going to be a bigger issue because of the light weight. It's boils down to physics really. As the round fires forward, it's also expending a lot of energy back toward the shooter in the form of recoil and physics tells you that an object that is heavier with more mass is not going to recoil quite as much. An extreme example of this would be tapping a balloon with a pencil, and then tapping a 1-kilogram weight with a pencil. The balloon is going to move, the kilo weight probably won't.

I don't know much about the Glock's safety mechanisms, but it would really depend on the design of the handgun whether or not I would trust it personally. I have always liked the 1911 design with the thumb safety, and then the grip safety.

That's the extent of what I know, or at least what I think I know. My Dad could have written you a book extolling the virtues of which caliber for what, and the good and bad aspects of various design features of the many different handguns on the market, but sadly, he left us quite unexpectedly one day in 1997 when he had a massive heart attack.

I know that this post is quite long, but I wanted to share with you a story about when my brother-in-law came to me wanting advice about purchasing a gun for home protection. He knew that I had grown up shooting and reloading, and wanted to know what I thought he should get. Since at the time he never mentioned wanting to go target practice, only wanting something for home defense, I suggested to him a base-model Remington 870 12 gauge in either modified or improved cylinder choke. My reasoning that with the plug removed, it will hold 5 or 6 rounds, is easy to use, has a stellar reputation for functionality, is a time tested and honored design, and for protection gives you point and shoot accuracy with plenty of power, plus, you could actually use it as a club in close situations. I mean, heck, thousands of police cars in the USA have 870s sitting in the front seat shotgun holder. It seemed the obvious choice to me for someone that had never done any real shooting and didn't know much about guns. I mean, have you ever seen someone shoot that has never fired a pistol? It isn't nearly as easy as Hollywood makes it look and so many people jerk the trigger so hard, they literally put the round in the dirt between themselves and the target, and let's not even talk about the flinch factor.

He ended up getting a Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum revolver that he can barely shoot. I guess that shows you what my advice is worth! ;)

12-04-2003, 10:04 AM	#11 (permalink)
trickg Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland Posts: 2,054	Ok, my knowledge here is somewhat limited. I wish my father were still alive, he could really give you the lowdown on all of these questions because he probably forgot more stuff about gunsmithing, reloading, ballistics, shooting, etc, than I'll ever know. Here's my best shot: Simmons scopes. From what I know, they aren't going to be quite as nice as a Leupold, which I consider the beginning point of the high end scopes (you have brands like Swarovski and Unertl toward the top of that list with prices at $1000+) but it is certainly going to give you great quality for your dollar. The optics probably arent going to be as good, but unless you are looking for serious long range accuracy, you will probably be fine with a Simmons and you will save yourself a buck or two. Plus the 44 mm objective lens on the Simmons .44 Magnum will offer similar light gather properties than say a 40 mm objective lens on a scope with more expensive optics. If you are going to be using your .243 for deer or woodchucking, this will probably be fine. I only suggested the Leupold Rifleman because of the new combination of Leupold accuracy and quality with a lower price. Target/protection pistols. If you are looking for a fun, inexpensive to shoot pistol, it's hard to go wrong with a Ruger Mark II in .22 caliber. Cheap to shoot, easy to clean, accurate, however, for protection, while it is a handgun, it's not going to have the kind of stopping power that a larger caliber will. If stopping power is what you want, go with a 1911 clone (Colt 1911A1) in .45 caliber. Dad was a police officer for 31 years and really didn't have much use for the 9 mm pistols. He said that in the field, the FBI had some pretty negative experiences with the 9 mm in that it just didn't stop assailants and some agents ended up being killed as a direct result of that lack of stopping power. (He had gone through the FBI academy's peace officer program, a four month course at Quantico, the end result was that the program extended the FBI's network nationwide) He was a HUGE fan of the .45, although he had nothing against carrying a .357, .41 or .44 magnums. If you are going to go with a .45, Kimber probably makes the best of the 1911 clones, although Para Ordinance used to offer one in double action with either a 7 or 14 round magazine, depending on how wide you wanted the grip to be. I'm not sure if they still make that one though. Personally, I like Smith and Wesson revolvers because of their ease of operation and ease of maintenance, but I have looked at the Sig and Walther pistols. I know a couple of people that own Sigs and they really like them. .40 Caliber. As for the .40 caliber, it's a compromise of size to stopping power, and although I really can't tell you much about that, from everything I've heard, it's a formidable round. Composite Handguns. On the subject of guns using polymers and composite materials, I think that it comes down to a weight issue more than anything else. If you have to carry a sidearm all day, like most people who are issued Glocks do, it simply makes your sidearm a little easier to bear, and to hold steady. I have never cared for the Glock personally, but I know a lot of guys that have had them and really liked them. Talk about a gun that has withstood all the nasty testing thrown at it and come out smiling, the Glock is that handgun. There is one thing to keep in mind though. If you are shooting a lightweight handgun in a heavy caliber, recoil is going to be a bigger issue because of the light weight. It's boils down to physics really. As the round fires forward, it's also expending a lot of energy back toward the shooter in the form of recoil and physics tells you that an object that is heavier with more mass is not going to recoil quite as much. An extreme example of this would be tapping a balloon with a pencil, and then tapping a 1-kilogram weight with a pencil. The balloon is going to move, the kilo weight probably won't. I don't know much about the Glock's safety mechanisms, but it would really depend on the design of the handgun whether or not I would trust it personally. I have always liked the 1911 design with the thumb safety, and then the grip safety. That's the extent of what I know, or at least what I think I know. My Dad could have written you a book extolling the virtues of which caliber for what, and the good and bad aspects of various design features of the many different handguns on the market, but sadly, he left us quite unexpectedly one day in 1997 when he had a massive heart attack. I know that this post is quite long, but I wanted to share with you a story about when my brother-in-law came to me wanting advice about purchasing a gun for home protection. He knew that I had grown up shooting and reloading, and wanted to know what I thought he should get. Since at the time he never mentioned wanting to go target practice, only wanting something for home defense, I suggested to him a base-model Remington 870 12 gauge in either modified or improved cylinder choke. My reasoning that with the plug removed, it will hold 5 or 6 rounds, is easy to use, has a stellar reputation for functionality, is a time tested and honored design, and for protection gives you point and shoot accuracy with plenty of power, plus, you could actually use it as a club in close situations. I mean, heck, thousands of police cars in the USA have 870s sitting in the front seat shotgun holder. It seemed the obvious choice to me for someone that had never done any real shooting and didn't know much about guns. I mean, have you ever seen someone shoot that has never fired a pistol? It isn't nearly as easy as Hollywood makes it look and so many people jerk the trigger so hard, they literally put the round in the dirt between themselves and the target, and let's not even talk about the flinch factor. He ended up getting a Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum revolver that he can barely shoot. I guess that shows you what my advice is worth! ;) __________________ Patrick Gleason email me at: trickg1@hotmail.com "What we do in life echoes in eternity" "At my signal, unleash hell." - Maximus Decimus Meridius