Larry Gianni

Noel and the others,

Thank you so much for posting here and helping us all try to understand what really makes a trumpet tick plus trying to have many more good days playing that bad with the understanding of how the “ physics of the beast “ can be used to our advantage.

Now a new thought on the subject
A little Los Angeles trumpet sound history lesson ( seen thru my eyes and ears )

I really don't know about other parts of the US and globe, but in the late 70 and all thru the 80's here in Los Angeles, there was a penchant to go to bigger and bigger equipment i.e.: bore size and leadpipe size, rim, cup throat etc, I perceive this trend due in part to the demands of a lot of live playing situation ( here and Las Vegas ) without sophisticated amplify techniques both big band, show work, large ensemble recording ( Star Trek – the motion picture had a 12 member trumpet section ) and the almost now extinct rockand roll horn section both with loud rock emsembles and mowtown and R and B greats, plus major trumpet stars icons like Maynard and his 70’s band lead by lead trumpet Stan Mark who at that time played a Benge 6x ,Eldon Benge's largest offering at the time ( Stand finally ended up on a Benge 7x- .470 bore ), Lyn Nickilson with his ST 306, and locals like Paul Cacia, George Graham, John Audino, Bob O'Donnell and Mike Paulsen ( both CG students ) , Jon Howell, Dalton Smith, Wes Hensel a young Wayne Bergeron, who went from a 43/72 Bach to a Schilke x3 before his Kanstul model was developed, plus a major west coast legendary teacher and trumpet influence of Mr. Claude Gordon, and his development of the CG Benge again .468 bore . Also not to forget the teachings of John Clyman , (Besson Meha, .470 ) and legendary sounds of Uan Rasey, Frank Beach and Pete Candoli on their LB Kings all playing and teaching that sound , a big, broad, dense , “ fill the room “ , “let it sing” trumpet sound. It was taught to be your most important goal as you matured as a player. Also I’d like to mention the horn section icons of Mic Gillette and Bill Lamb ( Quincy Jones lead trumpet at the time) with their #3 large bore Martins and Rich Cooper and Mark Underwood and Steve madio both large bore trumpet users and all having that that big. ballsy, brassy intense, large , “heavy sizzle” sound that that cpould be heard even over the loudest guitars. Even in the legitimate circles large bore equipment was emphisezed as an achievement standard , hearing the beautifull trumpet sounds being produced in most of the major organizations and as we all tried to emulate the great Bud Herseth and his approach to sound.

At the time, all the younger and intermediate players were under the impression and also sometimes delibertly taught that as you grew in your playing and as a player and got a better approach to the physicalness of the instrument, you needed room to grow (i.e.: bigger bore, larger leadpipe,bigger rim diameter, cup, especially enlarging mouthpiece throat) in your choice and use of equipment to get a " SOUND" to be proud of. Again what I see now is a very cyclical cycle to trumpet sound thru different decades ( remember the " pea shooter " sounds of the trumpets that came from the finest players of the famous Big band era probably up to the time of Stan Kenton with Frank Beach as his first lead trumpet ) The only player that was really bucking the trend to bigger and bigger equipment was Jon Faddis, who amazed us all with his extraordinarily upper register, but I don't think any teacher ever wanted there students to try to emulate his sound.

Now fast forward to the mid,late 90's were , with different playing situation, better recording and micking techniques, better equipment and mouthpiece choices and a different concept to a trumpet sound maybe, tighter ( I saw that in the good sense ) ML and even Med bore trumpets are now played and played with big sounds - Roger Ingram jumps to mind - rarely do I see mouthpiece throats drilled to 24 and even 22 like I saw in the players of a decade ago, more and more, efficiency is taught and using your brain instead of your back to play the ever more demanding trumpet parts handed us.

What my simple question really is - Is a good or even great trumpet
Sound ( remember good and great are subjective terms ) a cyclical thing
based on external conditions and playing conditions to all of us ?

I'd like to apologize to the many players and teachers I've left out of this blurb ( anytime you list great players , you always leave a " real great one" out ) and again I am just talking about the US / Los Angeles area which I’m most familiar with ( I know for a fact that in San Francisco , large bore equipment and mouthpieces are , used by commercial and legit players alike , is still the norm ) Why?

1) Not really any recording going on in the SF Bay area and that live playing is still the musical mainstay? –
2) More traditional musical climate with more traditional teachings and teachers ?
3) Not many young players moving or staying to play professionally in that area ?
4) Has the proliferation of sampled and synthesized music given us a mis-conception or different conception of a modern commercial or legit trumpet sound with -what I call _ " too much gain in the mix” trumpet / brass sound?
5) Are the higher and harder demands placed upon trumpet players making us sacrifice a larger , broader sound for increased range and endurance?
6) Are we all smarter now about using equipment - (is eauipment getting so much better) - so we use our brains more than our backs when we play and purchase gear?

Well , enough of my ramblings – I really don’t know a definite answer to this question let me know about where you play and live and has the trumpet sound produced differed than the past and has the equipment used changed.

Larry

Note to Noel - there is no one on this site ( or any other ) that can steal your thunder. Most of us are on the edge of our seats waiting for the next
“LONELYANGEL” post to appear, Without even asking , I know the rest the TMer’s can all agree to that.

Some 2000 decade players and equipment

Roger Ingram – Schilke S42 / Marc. Mouthpiece 28 or 27 throat
Scott Englebright – ML or M Bach 37 / Marc. Mouthpiece
Jim Manely – Reeves lt weight V-Raptor / Reeves mouthpiece 30 throat
Jon Faddis – Schilke S42l / Laskey mouthpiece / 26 throat
Dave Trigg – Calicchio “ DT “ model – med. Bore #3 pipe / Marc. piece 28 throat
Lew Soloff – NY Bach small bore – Commercial piece / Schilke 14a4a custom 27 throat
Pete Olstad – Schilke B6 ( he also plays and Olds trumpet ) , Monette mouthpiece ( smallest rims diameter Dave offer stock ) 27 throat
Charlie Davis – Bach 37 stering silver bell – bach mouthpiece
Gary Grant – Bach 37 – Reeves mouthpiece
Jerry Hey – Bach 37 – Reeves mouthpiece
Malcom McNabb – NY bach 38 med. Bore / custom mouthpiece
Bobby Shew – med bore 6310Z Yamaha / Yamaha BS mouthpiece 28 throat

Note about Bobby Shew – in the late 70’s and 80’s Bobby played his personnel model Yamaha, but got the one of the biggest sounds in Los Angeles, but Bobby is a player that was always ahead of his time.

OK – let me know

Please , posting just to tell me I’m totally wrong is not what I’m after – Me being wrong about something is no earth shattering news , but letting me know will not make me any smarter or give the rest of us any “food for thought” – lets keep the post in a positive vein even if you disagree, just tell the rest of us your reasoning

Larry

PS – I may start a new topic with this if this part of the thread really gets going

Ready, set, go