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Still Trying · 02-18-2004, 12:56 PM

Michael,

I respect you greatly and consider you a friend. Please don't take personally what I am about to say to Alex.

Alex,

Everybody knows that paying off credit cards monthly avoids interest payments. But most people use credit cards in the first place because they can’t pay off purchases monthly and have to rely on extended payments. If most people paid off their credit cards monthly, banks would stop issuing them because there would be no profit in it for the banks. Moreover, Michael Guevara has told me personally, and I believe one of your other dealers has written in this forum that their motivation in selling Zeus trumpets derives from wishing to make good horns available to children, whose families cannot afford Bachs. Those are the families-one of your prime targets according to your dealers-who are least likely to be able to avoid interest payments by making first a $500 payment and them monthly $250 payments on a Zeus G. So my assertion that the horns are not interest free because of the way they are likely to be paid off may be a laughable assertion to you. But your implications that people who don’t pay off their credit cards monthly are just ignorant, is really a slam at the very people buying your horns in the first place. It’s also cruel, insensitive, and arrogant to families with financial problems. As a matter of fact I seem to recall, when you first started posting about the Zeus on TH, that you said several times you could be selling the Zeus for more money, but you wanted a nice horn available to everyone, not just those who could afford expensive trumpets. Well, the "everyone who can't aford expensive trumpets" is the group you're laughing at now for not paying off all their credit cards monthly, Alex.

And, Alex, I never meant to imply that Zeus trumpets are mass produced. If I only implied that I apologize. I meant to state it as plainly as I could. It’s probably true they aren’t made in large numbers. But that is not the definition of a custom made horn. By your description of the manufacturing techniques utilized by the Kanstul factory, every single horn they produce is a "custom" built horn. By your definition of "custom" built, the Kanstul built French Besson I own is a custom Kanstul. It was made in small numbers at the Kanstul factory with the same quality standards as apply to the Signature horns from parts manufactured in house. It has options too. It came with 2 tuning slides and an extra set of valve caps. In head-to-head competition with one of your Zeus trumpets it came out on top also. I played both of them side by side. Now you can make snide remarks about my playing too, but I held down a symphony chair for 11 years, and used to make my living by playing trumpet. I’m not intimidated by you. But neither Kanstul, nor Boosey Hawkes ever asserted the Besson is an example of a Kansul “custom” built trumpet, nor did they try to use that perverted definition as a means of selling the horn. And by the way, I bought my Besson brand new in the box for less than you are selling the Zeus G.

If I was Kanstul, I would have a problem with your assertion that your massed produced horn (albeit mass produced in tiny numbers) is an example of Kanstul “custom” work. Kanstul has never showcased a Zeus as an example of their custom work. Jack Kanstul has even posted on the Kanstul forum that Kanstul reserves their best effort for the horns bearing their signature. In my opinion you’re insulting one of the finest trumpet manufacturers in the world to assert your Zeus is a sample of their “custom” work.

Offering two tuning slides, heavy valve caps, and a half dozen finish options doth not a custom horn make. If I requested a Zeus with a different lead pipe design, could I get it? If I requested a Zeus with so much as a different style pinky ring, could I get it? I can get those very minor things and far more from any real manufacturer of custom built instruments (Eclipse, Lawler, Blackburn, whoever). I bet I can even get them from Kanstul, if I contacted them directly and asked to speak with a representative of their custom shop. You’ve made up your own unique definition of “custom” built trumpet. I feel sorry for your dealers. You really have a fine product, if you’ll ever learn to represent it fairly. But by making delusional claims that are patently idiotic to everybody except the parents of beginning band students, you saddle your poor dealers with the heavy burden of trying to sell your horns on the one hand and trying to distance themselves from your embarrassing assertions on the other. I bet your own dealers are financially strapped, or they wouldn’t be trying to pick up a few extra bucks by representing you.

By the way, Alex, my name is Jesse Harbin. So now you don't have to be confused about that. And in the past I have tried to give both you and your horn every benefit of a doubt. I’ve bragged on it. I’ve recommended to people that they try a Zeus before buying any other trumpet. I spent time this past week trying to talk a guy, who’s been looking at a Conn Vintage One, into trying one of Michael Guevara’s Zeus trumpets, before he makes a buying decision. But I won’t do it again. When you start denigrating the people, who are struggling financially to the point that they would consider buying one of your horns, you’ve passed into a realm, where I can no longer support either you or your product. And let’s face it. If money were no object, every trumpet player on the planet would be lining up to buy his own uniquely designed, truly custom built trumpet. They might be lining up to buy a Wild Thing. They might be lining up to buy a Callet Jazz. They might be lining up to buy a Signature Kanstul. All of these horns are made in the Kanstul factory. They wouldn’t be lining up to buy a Zeus. You need to stop knocking the financially strained, Alex. You're getting rich to the point of arrogancy from their financially challenged attempts to provide their children with musical opportunities.

02-18-2004, 12:56 PM	#22 (permalink)
Still Trying Pianissimo User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lake Jackson, TX USA Posts: 164	Michael, I respect you greatly and consider you a friend. Please don't take personally what I am about to say to Alex. Alex, Everybody knows that paying off credit cards monthly avoids interest payments. But most people use credit cards in the first place because they can’t pay off purchases monthly and have to rely on extended payments. If most people paid off their credit cards monthly, banks would stop issuing them because there would be no profit in it for the banks. Moreover, Michael Guevara has told me personally, and I believe one of your other dealers has written in this forum that their motivation in selling Zeus trumpets derives from wishing to make good horns available to children, whose families cannot afford Bachs. Those are the families-one of your prime targets according to your dealers-who are least likely to be able to avoid interest payments by making first a $500 payment and them monthly $250 payments on a Zeus G. So my assertion that the horns are not interest free because of the way they are likely to be paid off may be a laughable assertion to you. But your implications that people who don’t pay off their credit cards monthly are just ignorant, is really a slam at the very people buying your horns in the first place. It’s also cruel, insensitive, and arrogant to families with financial problems. As a matter of fact I seem to recall, when you first started posting about the Zeus on TH, that you said several times you could be selling the Zeus for more money, but you wanted a nice horn available to everyone, not just those who could afford expensive trumpets. Well, the "everyone who can't aford expensive trumpets" is the group you're laughing at now for not paying off all their credit cards monthly, Alex. And, Alex, I never meant to imply that Zeus trumpets are mass produced. If I only implied that I apologize. I meant to state it as plainly as I could. It’s probably true they aren’t made in large numbers. But that is not the definition of a custom made horn. By your description of the manufacturing techniques utilized by the Kanstul factory, every single horn they produce is a "custom" built horn. By your definition of "custom" built, the Kanstul built French Besson I own is a custom Kanstul. It was made in small numbers at the Kanstul factory with the same quality standards as apply to the Signature horns from parts manufactured in house. It has options too. It came with 2 tuning slides and an extra set of valve caps. In head-to-head competition with one of your Zeus trumpets it came out on top also. I played both of them side by side. Now you can make snide remarks about my playing too, but I held down a symphony chair for 11 years, and used to make my living by playing trumpet. I’m not intimidated by you. But neither Kanstul, nor Boosey Hawkes ever asserted the Besson is an example of a Kansul “custom” built trumpet, nor did they try to use that perverted definition as a means of selling the horn. And by the way, I bought my Besson brand new in the box for less than you are selling the Zeus G. If I was Kanstul, I would have a problem with your assertion that your massed produced horn (albeit mass produced in tiny numbers) is an example of Kanstul “custom” work. Kanstul has never showcased a Zeus as an example of their custom work. Jack Kanstul has even posted on the Kanstul forum that Kanstul reserves their best effort for the horns bearing their signature. In my opinion you’re insulting one of the finest trumpet manufacturers in the world to assert your Zeus is a sample of their “custom” work. Offering two tuning slides, heavy valve caps, and a half dozen finish options doth not a custom horn make. If I requested a Zeus with a different lead pipe design, could I get it? If I requested a Zeus with so much as a different style pinky ring, could I get it? I can get those very minor things and far more from any real manufacturer of custom built instruments (Eclipse, Lawler, Blackburn, whoever). I bet I can even get them from Kanstul, if I contacted them directly and asked to speak with a representative of their custom shop. You’ve made up your own unique definition of “custom” built trumpet. I feel sorry for your dealers. You really have a fine product, if you’ll ever learn to represent it fairly. But by making delusional claims that are patently idiotic to everybody except the parents of beginning band students, you saddle your poor dealers with the heavy burden of trying to sell your horns on the one hand and trying to distance themselves from your embarrassing assertions on the other. I bet your own dealers are financially strapped, or they wouldn’t be trying to pick up a few extra bucks by representing you. By the way, Alex, my name is Jesse Harbin. So now you don't have to be confused about that. And in the past I have tried to give both you and your horn every benefit of a doubt. I’ve bragged on it. I’ve recommended to people that they try a Zeus before buying any other trumpet. I spent time this past week trying to talk a guy, who’s been looking at a Conn Vintage One, into trying one of Michael Guevara’s Zeus trumpets, before he makes a buying decision. But I won’t do it again. When you start denigrating the people, who are struggling financially to the point that they would consider buying one of your horns, you’ve passed into a realm, where I can no longer support either you or your product. And let’s face it. If money were no object, every trumpet player on the planet would be lining up to buy his own uniquely designed, truly custom built trumpet. They might be lining up to buy a Wild Thing. They might be lining up to buy a Callet Jazz. They might be lining up to buy a Signature Kanstul. All of these horns are made in the Kanstul factory. They wouldn’t be lining up to buy a Zeus. You need to stop knocking the financially strained, Alex. You're getting rich to the point of arrogancy from their financially challenged attempts to provide their children with musical opportunities. __________________ S.T. What do we have that we did not receive, and if we received it, why do we glory, as if we received it not?