Larry Gianni

Kenne60,

Well, let see. We seem to be starting down the same road about terminology and semantics’ a little and it somewhat hinders me in giving as complete a response as I want to. Again, what does “ open , stuffy , tight , etc “ mean to when used, what do they mean to trumpet makers and vendors , what do they mean in “ trumpet talk “ forums and more importantly of course, what do these terms mean to the player using them and asking for advise .A little while back, there was a lengthy discussion about the use of resistance and it’s necessity in making a trumpet feel the way you want it to. Ie: more resistance could make a trumpet actually fell more “open”. Everyone’s trying to achieve that “ warm, fuzzy , feeling “ about your instrument and how you now consider the one you hold on your hand at the moment , this make and model , the one that feel the most “ open , responsive and free blowing “ yet the numbers , bore size , bell taper. etc. may indicate on paper that this trumpet should have a “small, tight, restrictive “feeling / experience when you play it.

Also realize “Drum and Bugle “corp. instruments are designed and engineered differently that normal band instruments in how they play and how efficient they respond and feel. How may “G Soprano “trumpets do you find in your local community orchestra or big band. Most marching “brass “are designed to be able to be played at the very extreme level that they are called on to do. (The Wild Thing bell was originally made for a Drum and Bugle corp. instrument – G soprano I believe – the Kanstul superbore)

OK, back to the point. Here are a couple of things you didn’t mention that helps someone (me or anyone else) give you some “cyber-advice “on choosing a trumpet within certain parameters. If I had to ask for just one more piece of information from someone to try to help if would be “WHAT MOUTHPIECE “? Are you the most comfortable with?

Example:

If you normally play a Bach 3c for everything then a recommendation on a bell/leadpipe/bore for a trumpet choice would be somewhat different that if you relayed that you like a Schilke 6a4a or Al Hirt Jet-tone because of the things you normally are called on to perform.

By the way (side point) – so-called “cheater mouthpieces “

There are no “cheater “mouthpieces. I get somewhat annoyed when the term “pea-shooter “is used. Every mouthpiece is designed for a different purpose. Does “ Maynard “ or “ Bud Brisbois “ or " Bill Chase "use a cheater mouthpiece , how about Bud Herseth or Charles Schuelter. Why is a shallow mouthpiece a “ cheater “ and a deep mouthpiece to get a big, round, full, classical sound not a cheater mouthpiece but a admirable accomplishment of a highly disciplined “ alpha “ male . Why wouldn't you think making players of that caliber go thru huge and ackward musclar and physical manipulations to achieve their desired perrformance level by making a Bach 7c their pnly mouthpiece the rest os us think they should play? Isn’t every mouthpiece just a tool to help perform and “make easier “what you want to achieve musically. Isn’t every mouthpiece a compromise with the “good “aspects of its playing characteristic’s what you want to the most pronounced in your playing leaving it's negitive as " somwthing to work on "? Is playing a shallower mouthpiece on a piccolo trumpet cheating? Why not? Why doesn’t Haken Hardenberger (just for example) play the same mouthpiece on his Bb trumpet that he plays on his Bb piccolo, hmmmm ( Please don't give the argument that a Picc. takes a different type shank mouthpiece so you cant compare. A Selmer picc ( Maurice Andre style ) with accept a plain old trumpet mouthpiece on it's Bb pipe, so will the Yamaha)

You don’t drive a “formula one “racer on a drag strip and expect to win and you don’t expect a “Bentley “to win the Indy 500 or a “Lexus “to do the ¼ mile and succeed? Right I’ve seen , first hand , the principal trpt in the Boston Pop’s pick up his Eb trumpet to play some show tune for behind a singer that was originally written for Bb trpt, just to ensure and to make playing easier , that the long shout chorus would " happen " and all would enjoy the performance. Is that cheating? Should we ban all mouthpieces and trumpet except for a Bach 37 and a Bach 7c and then see who's the best .( whatever best means anyway ) Wouldn't all trumpet players and listeners suffer under that senerio , plus what would be accomplished by that experimental control factor placed on talent ? (might make these forums non-existent thou )

Think about it.

(I’m now stepping off my soapbox)

OK, back to the original point

Having played .470, 468, 464, 462, 460, 459, and 453 bore instruments, I can tell you that each one can play all the same notes, but what brings out the best in them, shat seems to make things work better, helps them have better efficiency and effectiveness, is a manipulation or change in the mouthpiece with a different cup depth a different backbore or a combination of both. The gap also has a lot to do with bring out the best qualities in bore size changes, but that the hardest to get correct and all other mouthpiece aspects need to be developed before gap becomes the deciding factor. Usually when the gap is wrong, the player starts to manipulate the throat size compounding the gap problem. More on that later.

To me, a rim diameter is not an issue. The rim diameter is a matter of comfort to the player. It’s decision is based on , “ piece of mind “ , ease of execution and a security factor . Volume can be obtained by alot of other variables to a mnouthpiece the least of which is a larger diameter mouthpiece. ( projection also determines the " audience " volume lever )If you finally find the diameter , shape , bite you can live with , I always advise to manipulate the other aspects , cup, backbore, gap ( the throat last ) too achieve your objectives. With the 3 piece mouthpiece system now (first patented by Bob Giardinelli and Joe Sheply in the late 60’s), it’s rather simple (but a little expensive) to be able to find out how changing 2 or the 3 mouthpiece elements affect you, your playing and the make/model you like. ( throat and gap not included )

I would not suggest getting a Calicchio 1s/9 or 3/9 LB ‘s as your primary instrument. I have 2 ( two ) 3/9 large bores. One made by Dominic and one made during the period John Duda and Joe Lintz worked at Calicchio in Hollywood and I love them both. The wonderful full, crisp, velvety sound they produce, plus the ease of playing them both are somewhat indescribable. You probably know at one time, the 3/9 large bore was called the Freddie Hubbard model because of how easy it is to get around on them, but like every trumpet, there is a compromise to playing a design that is somewhat far from the norm ( standard ).

Unless you use a fairly narrow back bore on you mouthpiece, and you want to play lead trumpet things , the sound on a 3/9 LB with not travel very far because of the lack of resistance and the large bell flare that tends to diffuse the sound somewhat quickly. Freddie like a “French Hornish “quality to his sound (I think I remember Freddie playing French horn as a child at some point. I know for a fact that Mick Gillette ,who also favored large bore , big flared belled trumpets - Martin #3 LB with a 6” bell - played French horn as a child and liked that type of big, velvety defused sound, but remember, he used a Jet Tone studio D , 24 throat , mouthpiece to offset the “ bigness “ of his equipment, plus usually with Tower of Power had a Sennhieser mic and a complete monitoring system in from of him., so projection and hearing himself were not a major issue ), so keep that in mind.

I would play my 3/9 LB in certain situations , such as a “ society “ big band job where I knew the charts would be more ballads , older dance tunes , Mancini and Bert Kempfert things , Sinatra , Bennett standards . The band would be unmiked and the ballroom would be big and echoy so I didn’t want to bounce off wall with a laser beam sound or stick out but wanted to “sing “(Bel Canto) and blend thru the night with a big, wide sound, plus, if by chance, a chart would have a hi F or G in it, I didn’t want to send some little old blue haired women to the ER room. I think you get the picture.

Now, to get the feeling I like, and be able to play the whole nigh on my 3/9 LB, I had to manipulate my mouthpiece somewhat. I would use a Reeves #2 sleeve that would give me a gap of over ½ inch which would give me the same feeling/efficiency that I had on my usual set-up. My only concern would be a constant vigilance on the intonation because a large gap will tend to make the upper register sharp and the sound pinched, but the large leadpipe has a tendency to make the upper register flat once you get a little tired and can’t overcome the inherent situation physically, so again it’s all a balancing act to be able to adjust to the obstacles.

So, when you ask for trumpet “cyber “advise, give the person a chance to get your whole picture and fill in as many blanks as possible i.e.

Mouthpiece – rim, cup, throat, backbore, gap
Music mostly played
Place in section mostly played
Upstream or down stream player
Playing situations you play in are they usually “miked “or acoustic
Do you hear yourself well when you play or are your playing situations usually have a monitor for you?
In the musical situations you mostly play in, is the intonation by the band or other player pretty good or are you fighting it most of the night
When you play higher, do you tend to go sharp and your notes thin out or do you ten to go flat and your notes tend to get fuzzy and defused.
Do you have a background of private lessons thru college or are you a somewhat self-taught player.
Do you usually like liqueur. Silver, raw brass or gold plating (you’d be surprised how the answer to that question reflects on the player and his pchsci on playing)
ETC,…

One more piece of advice – be very cynical of “cyber-advice “. I have seen some very bad advice (not intentionally by the writer) on these forum sites. In fact, I truly believe that if you asked any prominent teacher the same question of them 20 years ago that you would ask them today, you would get a somewhat different answer

I actually put that scenario to Charley Davis and Gary Grant the other day (both guys are not computer junkies or forum watchers at all) and after thinking about it and with slight qualifications, they agreed the advice they would give would be changed by the experiences and knowledge they have gained in the past 20 years

(Rick (rhdroc), I hope the talk with Charley helped with your problem. Wayne also mentioned he e-mail/talked to you – good luck) Time seems to always change your perspective on trumpet related issues, especially something as physical and moody as trumpet playing. This may be true of a lot of avocation, I don’t know

Well, enough of my rambling dissertation.

If you are “hell-bent “on a large bore Calicchio, which I thing are the best large bores on the market (. 468 range) then I would go with the 1s bell and the #3 or #2 leadpipe.
No bigger unless you want a somewhat specially trumpet. Listen, you can always strap on a #9 pipe to the 1s/3 (and ever play jobs that way) and see the difference. If you can afford a couple of different trumpet and want a 1s/9 or 3/9 in the arsenal, then by all means get it. I know you won’t be sorry with either of them. I have a 1s/2LB that I got from John Harner when he was in LA (he played it on Kenton’s band, so you can see what a Calicchio large bore can do), but ask yourself, when are you going to have to play in a “Kentonish “situation. When John was in town for a while, re-alized he had somewhat the wrong equipment to be more versatile and do more of the work that being “in-town “meant so he went to a Calicchio 1s/2s ML (a “s “cut leadpipe has a smaller opening ) which gave him that same Calicchio sound, but with a very “sure “attack and feel.

Bye, hope some of this made sense.

Larry