NATURAL TRUMPET PLAYING - Page 4

brian moon · 11-15-2005, 01:18 AM

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/...7&item=6003063

This is listed as 336 pages and seems to be all 3 volumes of The Art of Baroque Trumpet Playing for the price of one. It seems to good of a deal to be true. Hal Leonard lists this also, along with the three volumes separately at the same price. Can anyone clarify?

AKart · 11-15-2005, 04:28 AM

One more question:

How do you think, what kind of mouthpieces it's better to use in orchestral or solo playing? I heared that flat mouthpieces are more comfortable to play in orchestra...

gus · 11-15-2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry

Actually modern tubing is seamless, not seamed tubing. Historical tubing is made from sheet brass and soldered, thus creating a seam. The seam and "bumps" in the bore are just one factor in lipping out-of-tune notes. Bell shape, bore, mouthpiece, venturi, etc. are all factors is how well a natural trumpet plays. I've played and owned several trumpets made with modern seamless tubing that lipped better than some made with "historical" tubing. So it just depends on the individual instrument and maker.

Uh sorry, I mean seamless ( English is not my mother language). Anyway that you are a master on these issues, I think that the F and A are quite difficult if not impossible to play on a modern without the holes.

Thanks for your precision.

Gus

ROGERIO · 11-15-2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattdalton

I find the biggest barrier to selecting a baroque trumpet mouthpieces that works well is finding one with decent intonation. Many of them are quite flat in the low register, then go sharp up top. Dealing with can introduce tension, which is a real killer when playing baroque trumpet. Yes, you'll need to bend some notes to get them in tune, but you'll want the partials that don't require bending to line up as close as possible. If you can find a piece that plays fairly well in tune, stick with it for a while. You're more likely to find your sound using it than a mouthpiece that makes you work harder. It will also make lipping/bending easier when it's required.

I was so glad to read this Matt, I'm all over the place with my tuning... and of course I'm thinking it's all me... now I'm relieved to hear it might only be 80% me...

Can you and Barry (or anyone else who has knowledge of this) take a shot in recommending some STEPS to tuning? Tune the ____ , then the ____ to the ____ etc....

mattdalton · 11-15-2005, 08:23 PM

Rogerio,
Here's how I approach getting the vent holes lined up. There's more than one way to do this, of course, but I'll try to describe what works for me.

Before I start, I'd like to note that part of the trick is in having two places to tune: the placement of both the crook and the leadpipe. I know people who push the crook all the way in and try to do most of their tuning with the leadpipe. This is especially true for those who pull the crook often to empty the water and don't want to have to worry about repositioning the crook when time is short. I usually have my crook position pulled out just a bit, in case I need to adjust there. It also happens to optimize hole placements on my trumpet. Do whatever works for you.

It's probably easiest to start with the crook all the way in and all of the holes covered. Make sure you are using the leadpipe intended for the crook that's in place and that the screw plugs are in the same position for each of the hole pairs.

Play a C'' (third space C) and adjust the leadpipe position so that it's in tune.

Now open the hole used for C, the one under your ring finger or pinky and continue to play straight down the tube without compensating for any change in note color caused by opening the hole. If the pitch stays the same then that hole is placed properly. If it's sharper, you need to move the hole further toward the bell by pulling the crook out a bit (which will require a corresponding adjustment of the leadpipe being pushed in slightly). If it's flatter, the hole needs to move closer to the mouthpiece, which if the crook is all the way in may require you to move the screws to cover the other pair of holes on the top side of the crook.

Once you get the C where it should be, check the E, G, and high C. They should now be in tune as well, provided the mouthpiece is a good match for you and the instrument. You might need to compromise a little and adjust the position to get the note you care most about closer than the others, but you get the idea.

Now check the index finger hole. If it's in the right position, the F# should be fairly well in tune. Although I will say that it is a little flat on every Egger trumpet I've ever played. This helps when it's the third of the chord but makes leading tone F#s a bit more of a challenge. Such is life with the baroque trumpet. The F# should now be in a place where you can lip it to make both the thirds and leading tones work.

Finally, check the F and A with the thumb hole. The larger size of the thumb hole tends to make them more bendable, so I tune them last. Usually they are OK, but if they are really out of tune, you may need to shift the screw plugs to the other set of holes and start the process again.

It probably won't be possible to optimize the hole positions for all notes that require venting. Aim for the best set of compromises.

Let me know if these steps don't work for you and I'll do my best to help you figure out what to change. Best wishes.

ROGERIO · 11-16-2005, 02:21 PM

Thanks Matt, I've printed it out to try at home tonight...

AKart · 11-16-2005, 05:30 PM

ROGERIO,
In Russia playing the ancient instruments is a very young stream of the musical life. It became only in 90th years. Now there are a number of baroque ensembles but the baroque trumpet is not very popular. There are some trumpeters interested in playing this instrument and I think the number of them will grow in future.

NEW BAROQUE TRUMPET SITE:
http://baroquetrumpet.alkart.com - Welcome!

If you want to say anithing from your own experience, you can write an article about history or recomendation to players and we will add it on this site. Send them on email: trumpet-club@narod.ru

brian moon · 11-16-2005, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian moon

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_detail.html?cart=33410060664847287&item=600306 3

This is listed as 336 pages and seems to be all 3 volumes of The Art of Baroque Trumpet Playing for the price of one. It seems to good of a deal to be true. Hal Leonard lists this also, along with the three volumes separately at the same price. Can anyone clarify?

So if anyone cares. It IS ALL 3 books (336 pages) for under $31 from Drawbridge Music in New Jersey. Strange that you can get all 3 for the same price as one. If something goes wrong I'll post again when I have it in my hands.

mattdalton · 11-17-2005, 12:21 AM

Thanks for the follow up post, Brian. That is one heck of a deal! Anyone thinking about getting even one of the Tarr volumes should jump on it right now. That price is less than what I have single volumes selling for.

ROGERIO · 11-17-2005, 09:51 AM

I jumped on that one too. I sure hope there isn't a mix-up. It clearly states "all 3 volumes".. although the order goes through as only one item.

11-15-2005, 01:18 AM	#31 (permalink)
brian moon Mezzo Piano User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bloomfield Township, Mich Posts: 565	http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/...7&item=6003063 This is listed as 336 pages and seems to be all 3 volumes of The Art of Baroque Trumpet Playing for the price of one. It seems to good of a deal to be true. Hal Leonard lists this also, along with the three volumes separately at the same price. Can anyone clarify? __________________ Revelation 3:20

11-15-2005, 04:28 AM	#32 (permalink)
AKart New Friend Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 37	One more question: How do you think, what kind of mouthpieces it's better to use in orchestral or solo playing? I heared that flat mouthpieces are more comfortable to play in orchestra... __________________

11-15-2005, 08:23 PM	#35 (permalink)
mattdalton Pianissimo User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Newcastle, WA USA Posts: 142	Rogerio, Here's how I approach getting the vent holes lined up. There's more than one way to do this, of course, but I'll try to describe what works for me. Before I start, I'd like to note that part of the trick is in having two places to tune: the placement of both the crook and the leadpipe. I know people who push the crook all the way in and try to do most of their tuning with the leadpipe. This is especially true for those who pull the crook often to empty the water and don't want to have to worry about repositioning the crook when time is short. I usually have my crook position pulled out just a bit, in case I need to adjust there. It also happens to optimize hole placements on my trumpet. Do whatever works for you. It's probably easiest to start with the crook all the way in and all of the holes covered. Make sure you are using the leadpipe intended for the crook that's in place and that the screw plugs are in the same position for each of the hole pairs. Play a C'' (third space C) and adjust the leadpipe position so that it's in tune. Now open the hole used for C, the one under your ring finger or pinky and continue to play straight down the tube without compensating for any change in note color caused by opening the hole. If the pitch stays the same then that hole is placed properly. If it's sharper, you need to move the hole further toward the bell by pulling the crook out a bit (which will require a corresponding adjustment of the leadpipe being pushed in slightly). If it's flatter, the hole needs to move closer to the mouthpiece, which if the crook is all the way in may require you to move the screws to cover the other pair of holes on the top side of the crook. Once you get the C where it should be, check the E, G, and high C. They should now be in tune as well, provided the mouthpiece is a good match for you and the instrument. You might need to compromise a little and adjust the position to get the note you care most about closer than the others, but you get the idea. Now check the index finger hole. If it's in the right position, the F# should be fairly well in tune. Although I will say that it is a little flat on every Egger trumpet I've ever played. This helps when it's the third of the chord but makes leading tone F#s a bit more of a challenge. Such is life with the baroque trumpet. The F# should now be in a place where you can lip it to make both the thirds and leading tones work. Finally, check the F and A with the thumb hole. The larger size of the thumb hole tends to make them more bendable, so I tune them last. Usually they are OK, but if they are really out of tune, you may need to shift the screw plugs to the other set of holes and start the process again. It probably won't be possible to optimize the hole positions for all notes that require venting. Aim for the best set of compromises. Let me know if these steps don't work for you and I'll do my best to help you figure out what to change. Best wishes. __________________ Matt Dalton

11-16-2005, 05:30 PM	#37 (permalink)
AKart New Friend Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Russia, Moscow Posts: 37	ROGERIO, In Russia playing the ancient instruments is a very young stream of the musical life. It became only in 90th years. Now there are a number of baroque ensembles but the baroque trumpet is not very popular. There are some trumpeters interested in playing this instrument and I think the number of them will grow in future. NEW BAROQUE TRUMPET SITE: http://baroquetrumpet.alkart.com - Welcome! If you want to say anithing from your own experience, you can write an article about history or recomendation to players and we will add it on this site. Send them on email: trumpet-club@narod.ru __________________

11-17-2005, 12:21 AM	#39 (permalink)
mattdalton Pianissimo User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Newcastle, WA USA Posts: 142	Thanks for the follow up post, Brian. That is one heck of a deal! Anyone thinking about getting even one of the Tarr volumes should jump on it right now. That price is less than what I have single volumes selling for. __________________ Matt Dalton

11-16-2005, 02:21 PM	#36 (permalink)
ROGERIO Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: PHOENIX, AZ Posts: 926	Thanks Matt, I've printed it out to try at home tonight...

11-17-2005, 09:51 AM	#40 (permalink)
ROGERIO Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: PHOENIX, AZ Posts: 926	I jumped on that one too. I sure hope there isn't a mix-up. It clearly states "all 3 volumes".. although the order goes through as only one item.

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