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Tootsall · 08-03-2005, 05:19 PM

I wish I had a copy of the high speed films we used to take at Pratt & Whitney (United Technologies) when doing ice tests on fan jets. We'd fire golf-ball sized ice "pellets" straight into the front of a running (ground/static mounted) jet engine (Think Cessna Citation biz-jet here). Titanium fan blades would wave like stalks of wheat in the wind! I don't even want to describe the mess of chucking a dead bird in!!!!!

Flugelflyer is right... planes are built like tanks in virtually all respects. The real problem is the incredible amount of momentum that the entire "mass" has at the velocity it is travelling and the need for light weight to maximize economy (profits) to the operators.

(Yes, I was a gas turbine designer in a previous life... got bored with aerospace though...too many regulations).

Edit: So far there is no "real" evidence that's been presented other than a couple of passengers who reported that the "lights went out" at or near the moment of touchdown and some terminal employees who claim to have seen a lighting strike directly on the top of the plane at that same time. Another passenger reported that he "saw" the engine touch down on the ground shortly after landing....landing gear failure?. Someone else has suggested tire failure... usually indicative of a very hard landing.... downdraft? So it goes... the pros will do their work and the entire story will come out eventually. After all... they've got 309 witnesses this time!

Edit #2: Flugel, your comments about DFW are right on. Flat, open fields are the BEST insurance. Unfortunately not every airport has 2 miles of fields! Things would get very sticky at Newark and Ohare.... Logan has a bit of a "water problem" (as does Vancouver & San Fran.). Calgary isn't too bad (yet!... the city is building out like mad). Montreal.... depends if you're going through Dorval or "Miserabel". A runout at Halifax and you end up in the trees (as a couple of Air Canadas have done).

Looking at the satellite map (maps.google.com) and you'll see very quickly how bloody CLOSE 24L is to the 401 highway... it's almost like it's just "another lane"! If a landing plane gets blown slightly off course or veers after touchdown there is going to be one heck of a mess. They "had horseshoes where the sun doesn't shine" this time.

08-03-2005, 05:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tootsall Fortissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Yee HAW! Posts: 4,641	I wish I had a copy of the high speed films we used to take at Pratt & Whitney (United Technologies) when doing ice tests on fan jets. We'd fire golf-ball sized ice "pellets" straight into the front of a running (ground/static mounted) jet engine (Think Cessna Citation biz-jet here). Titanium fan blades would wave like stalks of wheat in the wind! I don't even want to describe the mess of chucking a dead bird in!!!!! Flugelflyer is right... planes are built like tanks in virtually all respects. The real problem is the incredible amount of momentum that the entire "mass" has at the velocity it is travelling and the need for light weight to maximize economy (profits) to the operators. (Yes, I was a gas turbine designer in a previous life... got bored with aerospace though...too many regulations). Edit: So far there is no "real" evidence that's been presented other than a couple of passengers who reported that the "lights went out" at or near the moment of touchdown and some terminal employees who claim to have seen a lighting strike directly on the top of the plane at that same time. Another passenger reported that he "saw" the engine touch down on the ground shortly after landing....landing gear failure?. Someone else has suggested tire failure... usually indicative of a very hard landing.... downdraft? So it goes... the pros will do their work and the entire story will come out eventually. After all... they've got 309 witnesses this time! Edit #2: Flugel, your comments about DFW are right on. Flat, open fields are the BEST insurance. Unfortunately not every airport has 2 miles of fields! Things would get very sticky at Newark and Ohare.... Logan has a bit of a "water problem" (as does Vancouver & San Fran.). Calgary isn't too bad (yet!... the city is building out like mad). Montreal.... depends if you're going through Dorval or "Miserabel". A runout at Halifax and you end up in the trees (as a couple of Air Canadas have done). Looking at the satellite map (maps.google.com) and you'll see very quickly how bloody CLOSE 24L is to the 401 highway... it's almost like it's just "another lane"! If a landing plane gets blown slightly off course or veers after touchdown there is going to be one heck of a mess. They "had horseshoes where the sun doesn't shine" this time.