TrumpetMaster - View Single Post - Ornamentation in Baroque/Renaissance contexts

Venturion · 01-24-2007, 06:35 PM

Greetings Ed,

Manny suggested I repost this question/topic over to you. He thought you'd have much more to say about ornamentation.

At a quintet rehearsal last night we were talking about ornamentation, and we realized that we really don't have much info about what would be appropriate, tasteful, historically informed, and practical.

I've worked with a guy a few times who tosses in connecting runs and the occasional trill or mordant or two, convincingly, and it does seem to animate and energize the proceedings.

I wonder if that is all it is, just what "seems like it works", inspired in the moment.

Or, are their codified conventions? Notable references or treatises with examples?

When I listen to certain recordings, I can lift some of the techniques, but without much understanding of the rules of the game, if there be such.

Other than the approach to "ornament at will on repeating sections", I would just be faking it (as a jazzer is wont to do anyway!), simulating recordings I've heard. I'd much rather understand the principles.

Because something is possible on picc, or even any valve trumpet, does that mean it is "acceptable" to do so, when the original material was from the era of natural trumpets, when it would have been virtually impossible to connect a run between certain harmonics, or to perform certain trills (I think). I think I've heard some overly-decorated interpretations.

I know this is a technical concern much of the general listening public is not likely to care about -- modern trumpeters quasi-recreating music of 400 years ago can wiggle a finger at a cadence, and who would object? -- but one does want to breathe life into this material in a way that is not cringe-worthy to those who may really know and care about these details.

And, in orchestral practice, how much leeway would you have to augment your part? Do you need to clear it with the boss or are you on your own?

Also, when multiple trumpets are involved at the same time, is the 2nd trumpet also to ornament his part where it cadentially resolves, or in connecting certain notes?

Just trying to get a grasp on nuance, from Dixieland to descant.

Many thanks for your thoughts!

-- V.

01-24-2007, 06:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Venturion New Friend Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 22	Ornamentation in Baroque/Renaissance contexts Greetings Ed, Manny suggested I repost this question/topic over to you. He thought you'd have much more to say about ornamentation. At a quintet rehearsal last night we were talking about ornamentation, and we realized that we really don't have much info about what would be appropriate, tasteful, historically informed, and practical. I've worked with a guy a few times who tosses in connecting runs and the occasional trill or mordant or two, convincingly, and it does seem to animate and energize the proceedings. I wonder if that is all it is, just what "seems like it works", inspired in the moment. Or, are their codified conventions? Notable references or treatises with examples? When I listen to certain recordings, I can lift some of the techniques, but without much understanding of the rules of the game, if there be such. Other than the approach to "ornament at will on repeating sections", I would just be faking it (as a jazzer is wont to do anyway!), simulating recordings I've heard. I'd much rather understand the principles. Because something is possible on picc, or even any valve trumpet, does that mean it is "acceptable" to do so, when the original material was from the era of natural trumpets, when it would have been virtually impossible to connect a run between certain harmonics, or to perform certain trills (I think). I think I've heard some overly-decorated interpretations. I know this is a technical concern much of the general listening public is not likely to care about -- modern trumpeters quasi-recreating music of 400 years ago can wiggle a finger at a cadence, and who would object? -- but one does want to breathe life into this material in a way that is not cringe-worthy to those who may really know and care about these details. And, in orchestral practice, how much leeway would you have to augment your part? Do you need to clear it with the boss or are you on your own? Also, when multiple trumpets are involved at the same time, is the 2nd trumpet also to ornament his part where it cadentially resolves, or in connecting certain notes? Just trying to get a grasp on nuance, from Dixieland to descant. Many thanks for your thoughts! -- V. __________________ "Moderation in all things . . . including moderation."