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screamingmorris · 06-06-2008, 12:18 AM

Hi!
I'm an amateur who returned to trumpet about 5 years ago after a 30 year hiatus.

I played trumpet for about 5 years as a teenager before a friend helped me to find out what embouchure type I was.

If you go to
An Introduction to Donald S. Reinhardt's Pivot System
and then scroll halfway down the long Web page to the section entitled "Reinhardt's Embouchure Types", the photos and explanations will help you to classify which type of embouchure you have.
It's helpful to know which type of embouchure you have so that you will better know which things to follow because they will help you versus which things to avoid because they will hurt you.

Almost all trumpet players are born with either a downstream embouchure or an upstream embouchure (embouchure is simply the formation of the lips while playing).

A downstream player has a lower lip that starts to curl under the upper lip more and more as he plays higher notes.
That causes the airstream coming through the lips to be projected in a downward direction.
Downstream players tend to use more upper lip than lower lip in the mouthpiece, they tend to play a little bit below center on the mouthpiece.
As they play higher notes they tend to point the trumpet slightly downward.
The person, Donald Reinhardt, who examined hundreds of players 60 years ago and discovered such an embouchure type tended to call it "Type III" (Type 3) and certain sub-types of Type 3.

An upstream player has an upper lip that starts to curl under the lower lip more and more as he plays higher notes.
That casues the airstream coming through the lips to be projected in an upward direction.
Upstream players tend to use more lower lip than upper lip in the mouthpiece, they tend to play slightly above center on the mouthpiece.
As they play higher notes they tend to point the trumpet slightly upward.
The person who examined hundreds of players 60 years ago and discovered such an embouchure type tended to call it "Type IV" (Type 4) and certain sub-types of Type 4.

So the upstream and downstream embouchures are identical except that one is the upside-down version of the other.

I spent 5 years trying to imitate the best players in school band and my playing just became worse.
Then a friend told me that he thought I might be upstream Type 4, which I had never heard of before.
I tried playing slightly above center on the mouthpiece and tried tilting the trumpet slightly upward and I had dramatic, immediate improvement.

A person who is born with one embouchure type should not try to play with the opposite embouchure type, because it would be like trying to put on your shoes backwards, you would just hurt yourself.

So you might experiment with the 2 types of embouchures I described, and which are shown at the middle of the Web page at "Reinhardt's Embouchure Types" at
An Introduction to Donald S. Reinhardt's Pivot System
to see which works for you.
Try playing slightly below center of the mouthpiece with the trumpet tilted *slightly* down.
Then try playing slightly above center of the mouthpiece with the trumpet tilted *slightly* up.
It also helps if you can find something circular and see-through to buzz your lips on so that you can see which lip curls under which lip as you play higher notes.
One person here cut the top off a plastic soda pop bottle and buzzed his lips on that while looking in a mirror.
I think he said that he discovered that he was born a downstream player.

Of course, some rules are the same no matter what embouchure type a person has.
Don't use too much mouthpiece pressure against the lips because you will end up mashing the lips rather than developing the muscles there.
And don't smile while playing, because as the embouchure slowly strengthens the outside corners of the lips should actually turn downward in a slight frown rather than as a smile. (In fact, when I give my wife one of those "I disapprove of that stupid thing you just said" puckered frowns, I am forming a perfect embouchure, so I have my wife's bad habits to thank for some of my embouchure development :^)

P.S.- Some posters might complain that this is the 3rd or 4th time I have posted this, but I remember how much I suffered playing trumpet in school 35-40 years ago.
If someone had simply diagnosed my embouchure type right at the beginning and told me a few simple rules to follow regarding my embocuhure type, it would have saved me 5 years of misery and embarrassment in bad playing.

- Morris

06-06-2008, 12:18 AM	#6 (permalink)
screamingmorris Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 802	Re: New - to the forum and the instrument Hi! I'm an amateur who returned to trumpet about 5 years ago after a 30 year hiatus. I played trumpet for about 5 years as a teenager before a friend helped me to find out what embouchure type I was. If you go to An Introduction to Donald S. Reinhardt's Pivot System and then scroll halfway down the long Web page to the section entitled "Reinhardt's Embouchure Types", the photos and explanations will help you to classify which type of embouchure you have. It's helpful to know which type of embouchure you have so that you will better know which things to follow because they will help you versus which things to avoid because they will hurt you. Almost all trumpet players are born with either a downstream embouchure or an upstream embouchure (embouchure is simply the formation of the lips while playing). A downstream player has a lower lip that starts to curl under the upper lip more and more as he plays higher notes. That causes the airstream coming through the lips to be projected in a downward direction. Downstream players tend to use more upper lip than lower lip in the mouthpiece, they tend to play a little bit below center on the mouthpiece. As they play higher notes they tend to point the trumpet slightly downward. The person, Donald Reinhardt, who examined hundreds of players 60 years ago and discovered such an embouchure type tended to call it "Type III" (Type 3) and certain sub-types of Type 3. An upstream player has an upper lip that starts to curl under the lower lip more and more as he plays higher notes. That casues the airstream coming through the lips to be projected in an upward direction. Upstream players tend to use more lower lip than upper lip in the mouthpiece, they tend to play slightly above center on the mouthpiece. As they play higher notes they tend to point the trumpet slightly upward. The person who examined hundreds of players 60 years ago and discovered such an embouchure type tended to call it "Type IV" (Type 4) and certain sub-types of Type 4. So the upstream and downstream embouchures are identical except that one is the upside-down version of the other. I spent 5 years trying to imitate the best players in school band and my playing just became worse. Then a friend told me that he thought I might be upstream Type 4, which I had never heard of before. I tried playing slightly above center on the mouthpiece and tried tilting the trumpet slightly upward and I had dramatic, immediate improvement. A person who is born with one embouchure type should not try to play with the opposite embouchure type, because it would be like trying to put on your shoes backwards, you would just hurt yourself. So you might experiment with the 2 types of embouchures I described, and which are shown at the middle of the Web page at "Reinhardt's Embouchure Types" at An Introduction to Donald S. Reinhardt's Pivot System to see which works for you. Try playing slightly below center of the mouthpiece with the trumpet tilted slightly down. Then try playing slightly above center of the mouthpiece with the trumpet tilted slightly up. It also helps if you can find something circular and see-through to buzz your lips on so that you can see which lip curls under which lip as you play higher notes. One person here cut the top off a plastic soda pop bottle and buzzed his lips on that while looking in a mirror. I think he said that he discovered that he was born a downstream player. Of course, some rules are the same no matter what embouchure type a person has. Don't use too much mouthpiece pressure against the lips because you will end up mashing the lips rather than developing the muscles there. And don't smile while playing, because as the embouchure slowly strengthens the outside corners of the lips should actually turn downward in a slight frown rather than as a smile. (In fact, when I give my wife one of those "I disapprove of that stupid thing you just said" puckered frowns, I am forming a perfect embouchure, so I have my wife's bad habits to thank for some of my embouchure development :^) P.S.- Some posters might complain that this is the 3rd or 4th time I have posted this, but I remember how much I suffered playing trumpet in school 35-40 years ago. If someone had simply diagnosed my embouchure type right at the beginning and told me a few simple rules to follow regarding my embocuhure type, it would have saved me 5 years of misery and embarrassment in bad playing. - Morris Last edited by screamingmorris; 06-06-2008 at 12:22 AM.