Trumpet Discussion Discuss $250 for Jinbao's Best in the General forums; This ad by Regal Music is amazing in so many ways, it is hard to describe:
OUR FINEST ...
$250 for Jinbao's Best
This ad by Regal Music is amazing in so many ways, it is hard to describe:
OUR FINEST ROSE BRASS & CUPRONICKEL Bb JINBAO TRUMPET
Cupronickel .... Hmmmm .. a quick search and I found:
Copper alloy (75% copper and 25% nickel), used in hardware products and for coinage
Then the price is $250. Starting to get up there in price for Chinese horns.
Unlike many of the no-name trumpets on ebay this Jinbao trumpet comes with a 5 Year Warranty. Most instruments we see on ebay are nameless and when you go in for any repairs the service technicians laugh at you. Don't waste your music dollars on a no-name horns. Buy a real horn! Jinbao Musical Instruments Co. Ltd. is a proud member of NAMM - www.namm.org. You will find most other Chinese trumpets come from companies who are not part of the recognized music industry
5 year warranty .... great. If the horn doesn't play well, who cares if it doesn't play well for five years?
Member of NAMM. Yep, they are. I am going to the NAMM summer show in about three weeks. Jinbao will be in force there as always. While NAMM does check both music stores and manufacturers to make sure they are real stores and companies, it doesn't insure quality.
A Side Note, But Important
Like many businesses we have discovered what a great marketplace ebay is. We are pleased to offer many musical instruments at discounts you will not find in brick and mortar music stores where the markup is typically 400%. We are pleased with the increased sales offered via ebay and pleased to offer quality instruments on ebay that include manufacturer's warranties.
They have got to be kidding. 400%??? Most music stores make about $100 selling a Bach Strad. If a music store sells something at full list they might make a little over 100%. But that never happens. The margins are so thin at music stores it is killing them everywhere. They make more selling music than instruments sometimes.
The pressure from the big etailers and the poor Chinese/India horns are killing the local music stores. Margins are very thin. 400% is beyond exaggeration.
Then at the bottom of the ad, they have a very nice recording you can play -- of a trombone. What is that for?
The horn looks good. To my knowledge no other manufacturer uses Cupronickel for bells. As the Chinese horns start edging up to making a quality beginner's horn, the price is approaching that of American horns. I hope they have this horn at the NAMM summer show. I want to play it. In the meantime, they are getting fancier and more expensive. The sturdy case looks like typical Chinese flimsy plastic. Oh well.
Friend don't let friends buy Chinese trumpets.
Although, Jim, I remember when the Yamaha horns (and other, now forgotten Jap horns) started arriving in the early 70's. They were a piece of junk! But, the quality got better and better-----look at the Xenos' that folks are buying today. If you'd have told me thirty years ago that Yamaha could someday produce a horn like that, I'd have asked you what you'd been smoking! :)
Gabriel is NOT a woodwind player!
i recall some years ago seeing the xinchao (sp) brand in some big-name music catalogs. what were they? where are they now? related to jinbao?
I'm not real familiar with the history of Yamaha. But from what I've heard, Yamaha already produced a quality line of pianos before they branched out into the brass instrument business. They also made a commitment to quality either from the very start or very soon thereafter. They hired professional mucisians as consultants to manage R&D for their horn line and formed business alliances with companies from whom they could improve their quality-namely Schilke.
I don't own a Yamaha and never have, but they do make a fine trumpet-lots of them. But Yamaha wasn't content to make second (or third or forth) quality instruments. They sought to improve their horns and make them competitive quality wise with the existing competition. And they made it. But, as Jim has pointed out, they couldn't do it and charge $250 for a "top of the line" horn.
What do we have that we did not receive, and if we received it, why do we glory, as if we received it not?
Mezzo Piano User
I don't think that Yamaha EVER made junk trumpets. (They and Schilke had that unfortunate spell with Yammalloy valves, but that was an honest mistake that they corrected). The Yammies I've played and/or owned from the seventies were excellent, comparable to Schilke. (Schilke himself set up the first production line at Yamaha).
Is there an earlier history of Yamaha that I don't know.
There were indeed some naysayers early on, but that's always the case with something new.
I thing a more apt comparison might be to Jupiter horns. The first ones were ..... "less than memorable". But eventually they came along, installed new machinery, took their lumps and learned. Now they are making their XO Tribunes etc. and have quite a decent reputation. The difference between Jupiter and Jinbao? It's got to be the Communist system Jinbao is set up under vs. the more competitive Taiwanese system. Lower labour cost, more state support for Jinbao.
Seems to me that this represents this firm's attempt to enter the US market. Whether the product meets the advertised specifications may well be problematical, but the idea seems both timely and well executed.
Who knows, in ten or twenty years we all might just be wondering why we didn't pick up one of these horns.
Why don't we all chip in and collectively buy one. Then we can all test it [like Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" tour] and then give opinions on its performance?
Oh yes, the Jinbao tour. That would be fun ... except the trumpet might not be worth the $15 to ship it to the next person.
Early Yammies had some problems. But they were corrected quickly. A year or so later they were making great horns. Their beginner horns are now among the most expensive and one of the better sellers.
I owned an early Yammie 321 euphonium (bought in 1975). Same horn is produced today. It was an exceptional horn then and is today. Bach sells them and everyone from Holton to Weril makes a copy.
Will Jinbao rise to a competent quality? They have been around for 20 years and yet they best they can do is a Cupronickel horn? They have, along with the other Chinese makers and india makers, flooded the market with cheap horns.
Is this there effort to climb the ladder (the price would suggest so)? 20 years later Yamaha was making great horns. 20 years later Jinbao is still making junk. What is their motive?
I only hope this shows that the junk horns have started their decline, that parents and students alike are shunning the crud (tons listed on eBay, but few sell). If this is true, then for Jinbao to compete they will have to make a better horn. Even in a communist system, they can't have negative cash flow forever. They may have to make better horns to compete. Then the price will come up and they will be competing with the rest of the world. Tough market.
Mezzo Piano User
Originally Posted by MUSICandCHARACTER
Ahh, but the Japanese junk horns died. Yamaha survived. I occasionally put 5 junk Chinese horns on my eBay watch list to see if they sell. More often than not, all 5 don't sell.
On eBay at the moment there are about 5 junk horns to every good one. They are killing each other. I am not so sure it is a dream. These are sure signs that some shaking out is happening.
Jinbao at least has the guts to use its own name. They are trying to differentiate themselves from other China/India makers. You have to ask why? My thought is that being associate with Chinese junk horns is starting to hurt them. They want to climb above. As the communist system becomes more and more open to free trade, the pressures will mount. Cheap labor can only do so much. Productivity and quality make the difference in the long run in a world market. Right now, the Chinese have a low productivity rate and low quality. Cheap labor kept them in the fight. But if they start losing the fight, what will happen? I think we will see.
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