Trumpet Discussion Discuss Anything different this time? in the General forums; Considering my limited background as well, I found it actually quite inspiring.
Osmo was willing to listen to what Manny ...
Considering my limited background as well, I found it actually quite inspiring.
Osmo was willing to listen to what Manny had to say, and discuss the matter openly and apparantly calmly. Seems to me it would have been very easy for him to just lash out and say "My way or the highway." To see someone in that position be amenable (hope I spelled that right) was quite inspiring. It also seems it would have been very easy for Manny to lose his cool, too. But because of calm discussion a compromise was reached. It speaks volumes about Manny's abilities that his MD trusts his opinion enough to let him have it his way on one concert.
Must be a great place to work, Manny.
"Roses have thorns; shining waters mud. Clouds and eclipses stain the moon and the sun; and history reeks of the wrongs we have done. After today, after today, consider me gone."- Sting
Oh, yeah... compared to a lot of stories I've heard it's a dream.
Look at worst, I think he'll have his little experiment and that'll be it. It's a pity it was with this piece, though. I was really looking forward to it on the Prana 1 I've been playing. The sound in rehearsal before the switich was unlike anything I've ever played. Alex is playtesting the BRAND new one I sent back to Portland so she and others could check it out.
I kept thinking of Gil Johnson all the way through the Blumine. What a special artist he was. Unique, yet fit in with that brass section like he was made for it. Wilmer knew him best, I think, out of the three of us.
That whole scene really stunned me, I have to be frank. I think it would have been better for him to talk to the setion during intermission instead of dropping the bomb right in the middle of a solo. A surprisingly bad call on his part, I think. But you see, he's not at all a malicious or bad guy. I just think he made a mistake that was well-intentioned. I've never seen or heard him say anything mean to anybody in the band.
Well, I'll let you know how it all goes by weeks end.
Gee, last time I checked, most conductors have definite signals for when the sound is too loud, or needs to be louder. At least all of the conductors I've played under do. I fail to see the logic of switiching horns to solve a problem that should be the conducotrs and not the equipment.
Gabriel is NOT a woodwind player!
Rotary trumpets are fun to play! We get a super dark warm sound at one end of the dynamic spectrum and when we start to crank they get brassy at a mf+ level.
We're dealing with the topic of "perceived loudness" here: Maynard or Chase at "1" on our amplifier's volume knob still sound just as "loud" as they played while recording although our babies and cats and wives can sleep through it all.
Sometimes conductors want us to "sound" louder than we actually play. Rotary valve trumpets and "conventional" piston instruments are sometimes the best solution.
I've some horns to trade if your want.
"A tool good enough to be so used and not too good"
C.S. Lewis That Hideous Strength
here's the update:
We're shifting gears and playing the rotaries all week and that'll be it until we do the usual rotary repertoire insofar as American orchestras are concerned. We've had some informal meeting with the other guys in the section and we're getting some clarity about what we all think. That's important for the MD/musician relationship.
I really love the old Philadelphia LP of Mahler 1 with Gil Johnson doing the "Blumine" solo. He seems to sing above the strings without being over powering. It is still my favorite of all the CD's I have of it with different players.
I'm with you, Bill.. it's a beautiful recording for trumpeters to listen to. What a shame that the Blumine hasn't been a standard thing to hear along with Mahler 1 instead of just being the occasional novelty. Then, we'd hae recordings of all the great trumpeters playing it. I would love to be able to sit and hear Vacchiano, Herseth, Voisin... all the greats playing it one after the other.
I tell you, I'm just a "fan", but this stuff leaves me agast. I'm sure Osmo is 237 times the musician I could ever have dreamed of being (once), but I am one of the extended AUDIENCE, which perhaps has some status? I just think it is so completely trivial to be dicking with what trumpet is choosen by a world-class artist and, more to the point, world class principal in literature like this. And yes, I happen to think there IS some American tradition built up around Mahler and deservedly so (think Lenny B.). I really have to be suspicious about conductors who even go places like this in their mind, and wonder what if any real concept of the music they are bringing to the table, er, podium?
Manny and Co. will undoubtedly sound just as good no matter what they play on--which is kind of the point, isn't it? That is, it's pointLESS.
Yeah, I heard Cleveland playing Mahler 9 in the old days, and gee, if only Adlestein had used a rotary it would have been even so much better! And Wagner in Chicago with those awful Back Cs--should demand a refund on that one. If only Gil Johnson had played Blumine on a sidewinder, they might not have waited so long to re-release the CD everywhere but Japan. If only, if only.
Oh Osmo, please, I want to hear Copland's 3rd with rotaries, and his famous "Fanfare for the Common Burgermeister", too.
Sorry for the rant--somebody hose me down...
Interesting story and instructive to those paying attention. It's vital, obviously, that a good relationship with the MD be preserved. Too bad that he did this in front of the band intead of bringing it to you privately (backstage or in his room). A brain cramp... even Finns have them.
We played rotary trumpets in Mozart, Haydn, Weber, Mendelssohn, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, and Beethoven when I was in Rotterdam (calf heads on the timpani for that rep as well), but rarely for Mahler, Bruckner, or R. Strauss. My goal was to differentiate between natural trumpet and "modern" trumpet sound and the rotaries crossed that line well as the C trumpets that we used (Lechner) got hot quickly.
We recorded the 8th Bruckner on rotaries once but doubled the section. Another story for another time.
Leave it to me to really stir the pot, but allow me to ask this:
Is Osmo also asking the Trombones to play the smaller bore European instruments? The horns? Is the Tuba player being asked to play a Bb Tuba?
Besides being sarcastic, I think these are good questions. In my own experience I find it difficult to keep up with Large bore Bach (or Edwards) trombones in Tutti forte sections on Strauss tone poems and Mahler symphonies...even at times Bruckner.
I think these are reasonable concerns.
In any case, thank you for sharing this with is. Your Grace in dealing with this scenario has taught me a lot about Humility. As much as I admired you before, my respect for your social nature has grown considerably. Thank you for setting a great example in the world of class.
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