stradbac

Hello boys and girls. I own a bach strad 180S-37 and I'm keeping my eye open for a Calicchio. Can anyone tell me what this bach's bell and leadpipe sizes would be using calicchio standards. I mean how does a Calicchio #2 bell with a #7 leadpipe compare to my horn?

stradbac

By the way, the bach 180S has a #37 bell and a #25 leadpipe

gbdeamer

Why are you switching?

stradbac

That's a good question. I'm not considering a complete switch. I'm happy with my bach. It's a beautiful horn and the only one I've ever played. I'd like to see what else is out there for comparison sake and if different I'll swithch horns depending on the demands of the particular style needed. I've read only good things about Calicchio horns and honestly some not so good things about bach in comparison. Thats why I'd like a comparison of the numbering systems. I don't want to buy a Calicchio that is essentially the same in dimensions and characteristics as the bach.

Ed Kennedy

Even if the Calicchio is "the same," it won't sound the same.

rowuk

There is no correspondence between the two worlds.

I'll make a primitive comparison: what has more power: a 500HP tractor, a 500HP dragster or a 500hp airplane engine?

That is pretty much the difference between a Bach and Calicchio. Complete different design parameters. The same bore size? Maybe, but the results are MUCH different.

If you have heard some bad things about Bach, let's look at the other side. Why do you not see any Calicchio in symphony orchestras?

It is always a matter of perspective. Bach sells probably 10,000 times as many instruments as Calicchio to players of all genres and capabilities. It is a massed produced horn for the masses. There is a certain percentage of less desirable horns. That is why we should play before we pay - then you get a decent Bach too.

My guess is that if you switch, the people that sit in front of you will be of mixed opinions. The sound will for sure become much more "brilliant", "bright", "cutting". That is why they are not popular among symphonic players. There will be for sure less resistance (that generally means less efficiency, but most players don't agree to/know what that means - scientists do).

I think any serious player needs at least one Bach or Bach clone in their stable. If you are into more commercial types of playing too, the Calicchio would be a decent addition, not replacement.

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Solar Bell

Good post Rowuk.

-cw-

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gtromble

this talk about symphony players not using 'bright' horns puzzles me. In the U.S., the C trumpet is the standard symphonic horn - and they are quite bright compared to - say - a Bach 37 Bb. I think you could come pretty close to that 'C' trumpet symphonic sound with a Calicchio 1s bell and the right mouthpiece - there's core and focus galore in that horn.

rowuk

I will not disagree. Bright is only one of the characteristics that I mentioned. Maybe aggressive should have been added.

Fact is, it just ain't happening even if the horns are state of the art.

By the way, the Standard C Sound may have lots of overtones, but still has a silky, creamy quality even when played loudly that NO Bb ever has had.

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bdeep787

A few thoughts.....

I played a bach stad 72 star from 1976-1988
I switched to a calicchio 1S2 in 1988 and have been playing one ever since.

Firstly,they are both great instruments! But like a previous poster mentioned, they are different animals.
For me...my main reason for switching was the vast majority of work that I was doing was R&B-Funk-Latin. Live and session work. What soloing I did was in that context (electric rhythm sections/loud volume) I found that the sound characteristics of the Calicchio made it easier for me to get my sound in the musical genres is was dealing with. Bare in mind that all of this is completely subjective and I'm in no way implying that this is true for anyone but me.
I found it easier to get "sizzle" playing lead on my Calicchio. Playing in B,S&T and Tower of Power demanding me to play in the upper register quite a bit and deal with stage volumes that could be fairly loud. I found that being able to hear the "sizzle" of my sound cutting through had the physical effect of me being able to play more relaxed. I wasn't having to work as hard to get my sound to cut through. Also, The response time of the horn seemed a bit "zippier" and given the percussive nature of R&B/Funk type of playing it really helped. It seems a bit more like a sports car and less like a big ole' chevy. Using that metaphor... Depending on where you're driving, you might prefer one over the other.

Another observation is that, In my opinion, Dominic's designed a horn that prints great!! All of the sound get's on the tape (or on the hard drive) I really notice a difference on playback. Other guys that play Calicchio's have confirmed that same observation.
It has a fully saturated core of sound which is part of why it prints so well. It's not a sound that spreads too much but stays in tact even if you're pushing it.
But all that being said...it's about finding the horn that you can get your sound on, that feels good to play and allows you to get the most result with the greatest ease. That may be asking a lot but that's what we're all shooting for.
Hope this helps....

Peace-
Barry

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