Tarter_trpt8

Hey Manny,

I've been thinking a lot about this question before I typed this out and I hope it say this right or clear enough for you and for the readers to understand:

Playing trumpet in a professional orchestra is in my opinion, as hard, if not harder to make than a an NFL or NBA team. It is a very select few who get there and more importantly, stay there. We read in a music class an article about a graduating class from Julliard and out of around 75 (I think) musicians from that whole class, 2 are actually playing professionally, 10 have comitted suicide from not being good enough, and the majority aren't even playing any more. Now I understand that this is only one class and results very from all schools, but this story brings me to my question:

In order to make it at the level you are at, and many others as well, do you have to have all of the pieces together when you enter college, or is there enough time to fix them? In other words, do you have to be a complete animal of the trumpet since you begin and get to be a monster by the time you get your masters in order to have any hope of being a professional, or can you be a late developer of excellence and consistancy and succeed just as well. How elite do you have to be? Answer this however you see fit...

I hope that was clear!

Thanks,
Jeremy

Manny Laureano

Succcintly speaking, all you really need to show is potential, Jeremy. That's what i would look for. Potential. That's important. You then you have four years to show what you can do with it.

ML

djm6701

Umm, although I think your own question is really quite valid, I'd have to question an article stating that 10 out of 75 Julliard students committed suicide in a given year.

Manny Laureano

That's why i didn't address it. I don't believe it, not for a second. If it were true, it would be national, nay, international news.

Just keep blowin'your horn, man.

ML

mhilton

There are a lot of players that went to IU to study with Bill Adam that were "below average" players, that came out of IU playing well enough to be in top performing ensembles and have had awesome careers. I think anyone has the potential if you just stick with it.

Matt

MrClean

It is a very, very tough business. However, there is always room for great players.

J

NickD

Define "make it."

I'm not trying to be glib. I honestly think this is relevant. If "making it" means "playing principal trumpet in a major symphony orchestra," there may be one way to answer the original question. If it is " becoming a recognized jazz soloist," yet a different way of addressing the question may come up. If it is "making just enough dough to pay the bills and keep my kids fed and clothed," still another answer may ensue.

I would argue that it is often possible for one to be "making it" or even to have "made it" from one point of view and the individual might not even know it, because they have imposed a different standard on themselves from what might be a good fit.

Man, my post here reads like a Haiku of something!

Anyway, I too am troubled about the post of such a high percentage of suicides from that graduating class. Stress to succeed can be pretty tough on some folks, but I'd have to see that statistic actually documeted. I have no doubt in the sincerity of the original post. I wonder if the #'s got exaggerated by the time they made it here. If they are genuine, I sense another thread!

Yo, peace.

Nick

mhilton

Jeremy,

Since Nick dropped in on this conversation, it reminded me of a lot of his articles I've read. If you want a great perspective on what "making it" means, I would encourage you to go read a lot of the stuff Nick has written about trumpet playing and his career. I've only had the opportunity to take one lesson from Nick about 7 years ago, but speaking with Nick at that lesson and reading his articles completely changed my personal perspective on what "making it" meant to me.

Mathew M. Hilton

Tarter_trpt8

I'll get the article again and specify what people from that class are doing now and what amount of people had actually committed suicide or not. I could very well have exaggerated that number since I didn't have the article in front of me...but I'm certain some did commit sucide. I'll get back to this topic...

Jeremy

And what I mean by make it, is playing in an orchestral second. I was basically asking for myself and jazz isn't in my vocabulary. At least not for a career...

NickD

Hey, Jeremy!

I find this thread compelling as I have had to deal with many feelings in striving to progress in my music.

Can YOU make it as an orchestral player? Absolutely! I firmly believe that and I have never heard you play or even met you. I'm sure if Manny gets back in here he'll emphasize that you will have to work like a dog! I would add that you have to want it more than anything. That desire will drive you. However...

CAUTIONARY STATEMENT!!!!!

The problem arises when one DEFINES THEIR LIFE or thery VERY EXISTANCE around being an orehctral player. For me, that's the challenge!

When I quit my job in engineering to go full time into music I had one desire: to be a Chicago studio musican and free-lancer. Now, I won't go into the details of how things went. As Matt mentioned, I've got some lengthy articles (at the UK Brass Forum) dealing with the specifics. The problem for me was that I was defining my life around being a studio musician. When the industry began changing dramatically around Chicago, I was in agony. It was like I was going to disappear if I couldn't do the work I had dedicated so many years in training to. I finally outgrew that and found that there were other ways to use my skills and talents and that all of the hard work was NOT wasted. In fact, I found out that there was a way that I could use all aspects of my life together so that NONE of the work I had put in was wasted.

By all means, Jeremy, go for it! Just keep your options open and don't limit your future by narrowly defining your path. It could be that a path you haven't even thought of yet will suddenly be in front of you that will allow you to be the best you that you can be. You have to have an open mind to know when you are standing there!

Here are the articles Matt mentioned:

http://www.brass-forum.co.uk/Article...heTrenches.htm

http://www.brass-forum.co.uk/Article...rdFerguson.htm

Jerrey, I hope all of this stuff makes sense!

My absolute best wishes to you and much succes to you in your musical experiences!

Peace.

Nick