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Old 11-12-2009, 05:33 PM   #21
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Re: Can doing situps help your breathing?

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Originally Posted by john7401 View Post
This doesn't make any sense to me. Isn't this how you get the so called "air speed" or "compression" needed for those higher notes? Yea range should be controlled by air direction and not pressure anywhere, but just from doing some quick experiments sitting while typing this, it is tons easier to get more air going faster using those muscles than just trying to blow it all out on its own.

I'm kind of seeing where your going with this, but for some reason I just can't comprehend it or get my body to do it. Can you somehow explain it in more detail as to what happens when you tighten those muscles, why it should be avoided, and what it really takes air wise to play high notes or the trumpet in general?
Anyone that wants to understand this should read “teaching brass” Kristian Steenstrup, there are other published studies, but that book seems to have the most relevant info to this discussion.

The idea of ab exercises is a hold over from the dark ages of brass teaching…..
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:51 PM   #22
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Re: Can doing situps help your breathing?

IMHO, the issue is NOT brute strength. The issue is developing your core to the point where you can maintain your core "grip" continually so that it doesn't have to jerk into place when you really need it. That I want is for what I need to be EASY and relaxed, and just like range, you're most efficient below the edge of what you can do.

Try doing 100 crunches all the while never letting go with the squeeze and you'll get what I mean.

For me, when I get above f above high C, it's all about the compression I generate from my core. The area from the bottom of my breast downward compresses, but everything above needs to remain relaxed. This is what I took a long time in learning. This way, my playing is relaxed, but I have the compression that I need to play in the upper register.

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Your abdominal muscle are already able to contract with a pressure of 300-400 cm without any "training", the pressure for speaking is around 6-15 cm, trumpet playing goes as high as 100 in the most extreme loud or high passages.

Any normal person already has 3 to 4 times the ab strength needed for the most demanding passages!
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:49 PM   #23
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Re: Can doing situps help your breathing?

Ok this I agree with and understand. I guess I was under the impression that he ment not tightening the "stomach" or what you call the core at all for the high notes. I keep everything else relaxed, but I do tighten the stomach area going higher. Maybe not specifically the stomach but I think its the core your talking about.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:27 AM   #24
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Re: Can doing situps help your breathing?

I watch a Vizutti, and i see how relaxed his face is. its a calm look, one that hes formed over the years. I try to stay relaxed when i play, and as some one said previously, play the music, dont sweat whether its high or mid, just play, and make music.
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:54 AM   #25
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Re: Can doing situps help your breathing?

There are lots of views on this subject, and I think my views are a mix of many different views.

First, being fit is a great thing for your health and for your trumpet playing. From my drum corps experience and beyond, being in great physical condition is great. Do some weight lifting and sit ups (or anything upper body).

That being said, I don't subscribe to the brute force methods. Why work harder??!!!! Firstly, make sure your equipment is comfortable for you. Next, learn the wedge breath. I learned this from Roger Ingram, and not only does it make your playing more efficient, but it makes it SO much easier.

Be in great shape, and play efficiently and you'll be in great shape!
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Old 11-13-2009, 02:37 AM   #26
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Re: Can doing situps help your breathing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john7401 View Post
This doesn't make any sense to me. Isn't this how you get the so called "air speed" or "compression" needed for those higher notes? Yea range should be controlled by air direction and not pressure anywhere, but just from doing some quick experiments sitting while typing this, it is tons easier to get more air going faster using those muscles than just trying to blow it all out on its own.

I'm kind of seeing where your going with this, but for some reason I just can't comprehend it or get my body to do it. Can you somehow explain it in more detail as to what happens when you tighten those muscles, why it should be avoided, and what it really takes air wise to play high notes or the trumpet in general?
Ever heard the adage that a little bit of knowledge is dangerous? It applies to trumpet for sure.

"Normal" playing without any special attention should be up to a clean relaxed high C. This can be maintained with about 30 min of practice per day. Most of my beginners are at this point in 1-2 years. G above high C is also no big problem. It just needs a decent routine and at least an hour a day. Most of my students (even the high school students) after 4-5 years achieve this.

We do this with normal Arbans, Clarke, Irons, Schlossberg. No special range exercizes, no exaggerated body tension. The key is the synergy between your BRAIN, your body, your face, your breathing and your tongue. Only a synchronized effort leads to good results. There is no "internet recipe" except trial and error.

My students with the poorest chances for success are those that tried extended DIY or with another teacher bounced around with embouchure and methods. Wiping out stupid habits is as hard as busting MYTHS. Those without any idea keep digging this stuff up! Many more without any idea pile on with so called "success stories" that are most often just lies.
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:11 AM   #27
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Re: Can doing situps help your breathing?

According to JeromeCallet, most of us use too much air. Without going into his philosophy of tounge controlled embrochure (or Super Chops), try this: Force all the air out of your lungs and then try to play. I think you will be surprised. I watched Jerry's DVD and took 2 lessons from him and I feel I play and sound better than I ever have.
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:14 AM   #28
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Re: Can doing situps help your breathing?

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I was told to use my abdomen muscles when I play the higher notes, and that the muscles should become tight when playing them. This has helped a lot, and it's easier for me to play a lot of stuff now.

I was thinking that if you had really strong abdomen muscles, would it help you breath faster and more efficiently?
Weird advice. I guess this could work you are spposed to flex you stomach when you play sometimes. the advice I would have suggested is to get peice of small but wide pvc pipe(enough to fit through your teeth) and breathe in and out for as long as you can, Breathe really deep until you can't anymore and hold it for as long as you can. be careful use common sense when doing this technique. It will increase tremendiously after only a few hours! If you get light haeded it is working and your doing it right, but if you get too light headed take a break and come back to it in a bit. Good Luck!
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Old 11-13-2009, 02:57 PM   #29
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Re: Can doing situps help your breathing?

Running might work out better. Louis Armstrong sure had some lard on his belly as do many fine musicians. Sit ups won't get weight down and blubber does not reveal the strength of the muscles underneath. But runners do develop serious lung power.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:48 PM   #30
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Re: Can doing situps help your breathing?

There is pretty much no way for me to get a good teacher at this time to work on all the problems I have. My problem is I am too inexpirienced to realize all of my problems and am constantly searching for them and ways to fix them. Obviosly I have enough problems to were now at 5 years that I'm still stuck with only notes around G above the staff, no tongue usage in my embochure, and too much stress over all the problems I do have.

This is why I was thinking about (and still am now) an embochure change/remake so that I can learn everything right and actually be advancing instead of being stuck in the hole that I'm in now...

Last edited by john7401; 11-13-2009 at 04:54 PM.
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