Performance and Tuition - Design, Modification and Repair
Jaeger Trumpets, Cornets and Mouthpieces
Please do not attempt any repairs unless you have appropriate technical proficiency
Program facilitator for
Bringing Music back into the Home
Best Instrument Repair in Oakland.
Recording Olds Trumpet (64)
Bb MLV Strad (69) ML 37 Strad (71) C ML Strad 236 (65)
Bach Strad Bass Trumpet
Holton T171 Alto Trumpet
Kanstul 920 Piccolo Trumpet
Yamaha 6610S Eb/D Trumpet
2003 Bach Strad 180S37
1995 Bach Strad 180S37G
1954 Martin Committee
1947 Olds Super Recording
1965 Getzen Eterna "Severinsen"
1949 Olds Super
2004 Kanstul 1510 C trumpet
1995 Connstellation 86B C trumpet
2010 Kanstul 1525 flugelhorn
2014 Yamaha flugelhorn YFH6310Z
1998 Getzen 940 piccolo trumpet
196? Besson English cornet
2012 Dillon pocket trumpet
Conch shell in F
I teach all of my students also to regularly remove the valves, clean them and then completely dry them before oiling. Especially petroleum based oils evaporate leaving moisture, paraffin and aerosols from our breath on the valve and casing. We end up oiling the sludge and NOTHING protects the valve. The valve and casing can be easily swabbed before reoiling, getting a large portion of the contaminants away from the valve!
I think that we all agree that there is no real possibility to remotely diagnose the problem.
Stuff like this I have not seen on the 3rd valve. The second valve, yes with the exposed slide and minimal bracing.
I think that we still have dirt in the tubes leading to the casing. I would give the horn a COMPLETE bath and a good snaking before doing anything else.
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
Once again, we've come to a very simple task that we are overthinking, and losing sight of why we're doing it in the first place. Why is it that we continually get caught up in the process and forget about what it is were' trying to accomplish?
It's pretty simple really - we need to refresh the thin barrier of lubricant between the piston and the valve casing - that's all. The only advantage you have by removing the valve is that you can completely douse off any gunk or solid particles that may be clinging to the piston, thus not reintroducing them to the horn, but if the horn is fairly clean, adding oil to a partially removed piston accomplishes the same task.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
"At my signal, unleash hell."
- Maximus Decimus Meridius
Nobody is required to follow any advice I write. Everybody is welcome to add me to their ignore list if you choose. That said, my valve oiling advice is mainly given to students. Very few students are playing monette horns, and very few professionals are looking for advice on how to oil a valve. The reason I give that advice to students is because it lowers the risk of damaging a valve by dropping or spinning it in the casing. So, my advice is not without reason, thought or experience.
It is also my understanding that monette valves contain living, rare earth properties that need sunlight once a week to function properly.
" It's a dog eat dog world out there and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear" Norm Peterson "Cheers"
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up" Lilly Tomlin
Take it to Dave. You'll have it back in a couple years! Or use a hammer after
complete removal. Or, or, or, just maybe you can use google for a dealer near you.
Knowledge is freedom, and ignorance is slavery - Miles Davis
The difference between a beginner and pro mouthpiece is practice - tobylou8
Nobody has learned how to play the trumpet. It's endless. - Maynard Ferguson
Don't be afraid to try something different. The Ark was built by an amateur and the Titanic was built by a group of experienced engineers.
By the inch it's a cinch, by the yard, it's hard!
Last time I looked (yesterday), my Prana was a dead hunk of metal with all of the earthly particles removed and it hadn't seen the light of day for about 3 weeks (been playing natural trumpet....).
MM, I don't think that anyone really disagrees with anything or anybody here. HHS has a Yamaha Xeno and can't figure out why a valve that worked before oiling doesn't go back in now. There are only 2 possibilities: contaminants or damage. The first possibility requires removal as does the second. As far as general practice goes, we have all squirted oil in the bottom valve cap and pulled the valve out half way to oil on top of whatever was left on the valve/casing. I am reasonably sure that neither destroyed the instrument.
That being said, the Ultra Pure guy used to post here occasionally and presented some really interesting info. It was something to the effect that valve oil based on petroleum is made up of various ingredients like mineral oil, paraffin and some other stuff. The mineral oil is reported to evaporate in between 17 and 24 hours leaving the sludge from our moist breath and the nonvolatile ingredients in the horn. This means that after 24 hours, we have no more "oil", rather only moisture that does a pretty crappy job protecting the valve. The Ultra Pure motivation was to sell synthetic oil that did not "evaporate" while providing a "service" designed to help prevent wear and keep the valves moving slickly.
I think often that the function of valve oil is reduced to "preventing the valves from sticking". It is often ignored that when metals rub against one another that they wear. Any collector of vintage trumpets knows how badly worn valves can be. Only when the oil bonds to the surface of the metal is it protected. An additional factor is that valve oil does bind contaminants. All of these factors support the notion that cleanliness is next to godliness. I teach my students how to bathe and snake their instruments, clean the valves completely and everything else that keeps the instrument clean and functional.
For the record: Dave Monette advocates the direct bond between oil and the metal and the complete removal of moisture and contaminants whenever possible. He is proud of the manufacturing tolerances and always comments positively when performing service on a well maintained horn. You CAN see the difference when the lapping marks are not smoothed off from metal/metal contact.
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
Update about my trumpet. I took it to a repair shop last week. The technician suspected it was a bent valve. I got a call from him today and no good news. He said he'll look into replacing the whole valve after consulting Yamaha.
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