Classical symphonies - too low?

_TrumpeT_ · 11-28-2006, 10:11 PM

Manny, I've read that some Classical symphonies written by Mozart involve range that would be part of the pedal tone on our present Bb trumpet. I've also read that these parts double up with timpanis and it's good to play them an octave up but I've also read experiences of people playing them as pedal tones. How would you play these notes? Thank you.

Manny Laureano · 11-29-2006, 12:43 AM

I think they would just sound dumb as pedal tones, frankly. Unless you had some special horn rigged up to give you a solid version of the printed note, such as the low C in the Jupiter Symphony, it would not sound vibrant. Rather, it would be dull.

ML

Albert Castillo · 11-29-2006, 04:41 AM

Sorry, just a commentary. There is a lot of these notes in the classical works. I found too, a very large group of players (professional too!) that didn't understand, that the notes wrote in bass key, must be readed as in the "horn parts" tradition, that is, a octave up. Then, (you know it sure, just good if someone doesn't)the low notes in the Jupiter Symphony are in the pedal register only for the second trumpet.
I agree with Manny. Pedal tones will sound maybe great in the trumpet row. But they don't have the projection (with the right quality) for the orchestra hall.
That's my opinion too, that as soloist using piccs and high horns, the second trumpet could use other trumpets lower as the Bb, in adition to the usual C (or Bb)(think in Strauss or Wagner, it would be great!). Maybe is just because of the instrument market?

rowuk · 11-29-2006, 07:10 AM

The old deep F trumpets had those notes. They sound consistent with the higher octave. Our modern horns "sacrifice" that octave for securities sake.

Albert Castillo · 11-29-2006, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowuk

The old deep F trumpets had those notes. They sound consistent with the higher octave. Our modern horns "sacrifice" that octave for securities sake.

Genau! That's it!

Rgale · 11-30-2006, 08:09 PM

The low notes work on the natural trumpets they were written for, although they are low. Baroque trumpets aren't as loud, but should be enough for Mozart.
But unless you are using them in the orchestra, just play the darn things up an octave. The conductor probably won't notice, and if he does, probably will understand the problem.

Schwab · 12-01-2006, 12:37 AM

I second on a piece in college (I don't remember which one) where I played a low E on Bb trumpet, pulled out the tuning slide and 3rd slide and fingered 123. It sounded good, it was octaves with the principal player. After the lick I picked up my C trumpet and played the rest of the piece.

cornetguy · 12-01-2006, 09:13 AM

as a second I do that all the time. or just play the whole piece on Bb (Brahms Haydn variations comes to mind immediatly) We did Don Giovanni a few years ago. I played that part on my D trumpet (bach large bore long bell eb/d) and the pedel just fell out of the horn. did the rest on C

11-28-2006, 10:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
_TrumpeT_ Piano User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 312	Classical symphonies - too low? Manny, I've read that some Classical symphonies written by Mozart involve range that would be part of the pedal tone on our present Bb trumpet. I've also read that these parts double up with timpanis and it's good to play them an octave up but I've also read experiences of people playing them as pedal tones. How would you play these notes? Thank you.
_TrumpeT_ Piano User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 312	__________________ Bach Stradivarius 180/37 Bach 7C "I built my staccato like the piano; low register with the warmth of the cello; lyrical melodies like the violin; running notes like the clarinet" - Maurice André

11-29-2006, 04:41 AM	#3 (permalink)
Albert Castillo Pianissimo User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Munich Brand: Schagerl-Breslmair Posts: 107	Sorry, just a commentary. There is a lot of these notes in the classical works. I found too, a very large group of players (professional too!) that didn't understand, that the notes wrote in bass key, must be readed as in the "horn parts" tradition, that is, a octave up. Then, (you know it sure, just good if someone doesn't)the low notes in the Jupiter Symphony are in the pedal register only for the second trumpet. I agree with Manny. Pedal tones will sound maybe great in the trumpet row. But they don't have the projection (with the right quality) for the orchestra hall. That's my opinion too, that as soloist using piccs and high horns, the second trumpet could use other trumpets lower as the Bb, in adition to the usual C (or Bb)(think in Strauss or Wagner, it would be great!). Maybe is just because of the instrument market?
	__________________ Albert A. Castillo

11-29-2006, 07:10 AM	#4 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Brand: Nat, Piston, Rotary Posts: 3,917	The old deep F trumpets had those notes. They sound consistent with the higher octave. Our modern horns "sacrifice" that octave for securities sake.
	__________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

11-30-2006, 08:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
Rgale Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 855	The low notes work on the natural trumpets they were written for, although they are low. Baroque trumpets aren't as loud, but should be enough for Mozart. But unless you are using them in the orchestra, just play the darn things up an octave. The conductor probably won't notice, and if he does, probably will understand the problem.
	__________________ Listen to your inner voice before it says ,"I told you so".

12-01-2006, 12:37 AM	#7 (permalink)
Schwab Moderator Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: the road Posts: 930	I second on a piece in college (I don't remember which one) where I played a low E on Bb trumpet, pulled out the tuning slide and 3rd slide and fingered 123. It sounded good, it was octaves with the principal player. After the lick I picked up my C trumpet and played the rest of the piece.
	__________________ Dylan Schwab Stage 1 New York

11-29-2006, 12:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	I think they would just sound dumb as pedal tones, frankly. Unless you had some special horn rigged up to give you a solid version of the printed note, such as the low C in the Jupiter Symphony, it would not sound vibrant. Rather, it would be dull. ML

12-01-2006, 09:13 AM	#8 (permalink)
cornetguy Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Saint Paul, MN Brand: Yamaha, Bach, Getzen Posts: 730	as a second I do that all the time. or just play the whole piece on Bb (Brahms Haydn variations comes to mind immediatly) We did Don Giovanni a few years ago. I played that part on my D trumpet (bach large bore long bell eb/d) and the pedel just fell out of the horn. did the rest on C
	__________________ Res Severa Verum Gaudium

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