tpter1

http://myauditions.com/groupee/forum...21/m/797103899

Thoughts?

Are we, in fact, labelling cultures in our society as discussed? If so, is this cultural labelling actually the cause of rifts? Are we in the educational portion of this industry effectively shutting down orchestras by propogating such ideas?

I particularly like the closing statement about a well-rounded musical offering in universities as being the true indicator of a successful program. Further, I think that what is actually going on is the isolation of culture, rather than a truly multi-cultural approach which would hold, in my opinion, that all musics are viable for study and are the property of all who come to them with an open mind.

__________________
-Glenn
"Roses have thorns; shining waters mud. Clouds and eclipses stain the moon and the sun; and history reeks of the wrongs we have done. After today, after today, consider me gone."- Sting

Jimi Michiel

I think it's hard enough to get "art music" into schools at all. I don't think the type of music matters as much, at least as a younger age. As long as students get some kind of exposure to "art" music, be it Brahms, Coltrane or Ravi Shankar, they leave the door open to be open to exploring new kinds of music (outside the MTV bubble).

-Jimi

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ecarroll

Jimi and Glenn,

I'm not promoting one of the schools that I teach at (no need, really), but everyone in my trumpet studio at CalArts participates in small jazz groups, free improv ensembles, and world music ensembles (the latter two are requirements) in addition to studying classical music. The lines between art musics are starting to blur, thankfully, and our next generation of iPod musicians will need to be far more facile in response (or, ideally, to lead).

I'm glad that this is finally noticed and being discussed here.

Best,
EC

beartrumpet74

The real challenge is engaging youngsters before the television gets to them so to speak . It seems that when you introduce music to a young person, whatever type it may be, they love it no matter what. As far as the comments by the author from the link are concerned... I couldn't agree more. Ed's post is also right on the money. Not surprising considering the school he is teaching at, or Ed's well documented open mindedness when it comes to all music. The real shame is that outside schools like CalArts ,this sort of open minded approach seems to be in the minority. At most state schools, the old ideals of Mozart, and Beethoven seem to rule the roost. These programs WILL and ARE suffering losses in student enrollment as a result of thier lack of forward vision. BUT the real culprit, at least at the college level, is N.A.S.M. NASM is a suedo totalitarian regiem of people who set the standard for music in college through accredidation requirements. They are outdated and still way to far behind in thier vision of what music school should be about. Furthermore, they have no problem with threating institutions that look forward with an open mind within an inch of thier lives for doing so. They hold the specter of non-accredidation over the heads of schools that would otherwise try to experiment with thier offerings. My true hope is that with people like Ed, and others...PLUS a new crop of college proffesors still in the making, that this problem with cure itself. I just hope it won't be too late by the time the younger generation is in place. GREAT DISCUSSION THREAD!!! way better than who won the Boston job or better stated didn't!
That's my 2 cents
sincerely
Matt Lawson

Jimi Michiel

I agree. And I also think that it's a good thing. But the follow up is a discussion of the blurring between art and pop music. The idea of a crossover musician, in my mind, seems to be defined less by players who travel between different kinds of art music (Wynton Marsalis playing classical and jazz, for example) and more towards musicians traveling between art music and pop music.

A clear example of this is Herbie Hancock, who has always dabbled on both sides of the line. Anybody know his album Feets Don't Fail Me Now? Be glad you don't, Herbie was no disco master to say the least... More recently, he collaborated with Christina Aguilera on his album Possibilities. It got nominated for a Grammy and, in my opinion, is excellent! Could the barriers be falling not only between different kinds of art music but also between art and popular music? Just food for thought.

-Jimi

PS If I ever see Gil Shaham playing on a 50 cent album, I'm throwing in the towel

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ecarroll

Matt,

Thanks for your kind words. CalArts is a NASM school, however, and they are constantly asking us to evaluate and make presentations at other schools (I'm up on this stuff as I've recently been an assistant dean) (can you say "committee work"?) so the blame doesn't rest entirely with them.

The blame (and that's probably too strong a word) probably rests more in the size of enrollment at many schools and with conservatories that take "conserve" too seriously.

Art has always marched ahead...with us or without us. I'm banking on the latter.

Best,
EC

beartrumpet74

Ed -
Interesting thoughts! I wonder if you are eluding to a thought I have often. That we
1. have too many music majors
2. are producing "artists" in a cookie cutter fashion

Or are you just refering to traditional classical music being the lowest common denomonater at music schools... mind you I am not implying that the music itself is low or uninteresting... just that it is overly excepted as the most correct way to teach music and art... that is rely on western "art" music as a source for educating new artists. That statement alone makes me question the merits of relying to heavily on western art music for education. How do we encourage new artists to make vital and fresh statements when we indoctrinate them into a way of thinking that is a few hundred years old?
just questions ... interested in what you think
P.S. Lorenzo and I are together again on Feb 3rd playing with La Barbera's big band at the Jazz Factory! We are both very happy to finally get to play together again
Peace
Matt

tpter1

Last night on CBC (yes, I'm close enough to Canada that it's included as one of the channels in the basic cable!) I saw something that caught my attention: Hip-Hop artist K-os and the CBC Radio Symphony. The show detailed the work that K-os did to combine hip-hop over a symphony string section. He also had tablas, an acoustic drum kit, an acoustic guitar and someone playing flugel. (Anyone know who that was, by the way?)

I was expecting one thing, and got another. He can actually sing! (I am not a fan of rap...of any form). This got me thinking about this thread, and the Led Zeppelin concert that MO was doing, and Charlie Parker's album with strings.

It was really fascinating to see how someone who doesn't read music works on a piece of music; the way the conceive things and how they express their ideas and how they retain what they've done from one day to the next.

Versatility seems the key to success, to be certain, for future musicians.

__________________
-Glenn
"Roses have thorns; shining waters mud. Clouds and eclipses stain the moon and the sun; and history reeks of the wrongs we have done. After today, after today, consider me gone."- Sting