Heavens2kadonka

To: sales@jinbaomusic.com

Subject: Questions about your trumpets

These are several questions that I have about your horns that can only be answered by your company directly. My first question is about the cupronickel horns. How much nickel do you use to the copper, and how can you still offer such a competitively-priced horn using such a more expensive metal than zinc? Do you use any other metals in the alloys you use? Does the cupronickel produce a sound similar or superior to brass?

Also, I have several questions about the Jinbao facility and it's employees. What are their average wages, and how do they compare with other industries in your country? What is their average experience level with trumpet making/soldering/testing of horns? How much of the horn is hand-made?

Many of these questions, if you can answer them, will be a part of a paper I am planning to write over trumpet making. It is an exhaustive process, collecting every single detail from the purchase of the raw or scrap metals to the costs of the machinery that draw the leadpipes. I apologize if I am asking questions you may not feel comfortable answering, and you do not have to answer all of them. They were just questions that I, among others, were wondering about.

Van Bryant, II

mheffernen5

Heavens2kadonka

From : Lucy Liu-Jinbao Music <sales@jinbaomusic.com>
Sent : Sunday, July 4, 2004 6:05 PM
To : "V B" <heavens2kadonka@hotmail.com>
Subject : Re: Questions about your trumpets


Sorry,I can't answer your questions at this time.
Where are you from?What is your job?Why you want to know the information about
our trumpet and our company?
Please explain more about you.
Thanks.
JINBAO

Heavens2kadonka

To: sales@jinbaomusic.com

Subject: Re: Re


I apologize. I should always take the time and be friendly enough to introduce myself!

My full name is Van Robert Bryant II. I am a student at Cumberland University in Lebanon, Tennessee, U.S.A. I am majoring in both instrumental and vocal music education. I have been playing the trumpet for nine years.

I will further elaborate on why I decided to contact your company directly. I have not even heard of your name until very recently, when I came across a forum subject discussing your trumpets. There are those who are arguing about your horn's prices, and the shady nature of many retailers in this country for your horns. I checked. Regalmusic.com advertises your cupronickel horns as being "nickel silver," and shows pictures of what's basically older horns with sticky valves as bad horns. Many of the auction sellers of your horns have poor reputations and several complaints against them.

Thats not to say all U.S. dealers of Jinbao's are swindlers. Kessler music has begun selling your horns, and they have a great reputation. I'm sure there are many other dealers that sell your horns, I just couldn't find them all at this time :)

About the prices of your horns, I've seen Jinbao's advertised all over the place, from below $100 to about $500. I'm not one who likes guessing. What are the suggested retail prices of your horns?

I asked about the nickel content in your cupronickel horns because I discovered that nickel is around six time more expensive than copper, and TWELVE times more expensive than zinc. How do you still offer competetive prices for a mor expensive trumpet alloy? Also, is it taboo for you to discuss metal percentage of the alloys your company uses (A rough guess would do just as fine..)?

I also asked about craftsmen wages to gauge how much that would figure into the overall value of the horn. Of course, like most all questions that I am asking, if the information cannot be disclosed, that is perfectly fine as well. Just answering my strange e-mail is cooperation enough!

My main motivation for contacting your company was for knowledge. I have become fascinated with every facet of the trumpet-making process (even the BUSINESS part, and I have never been exceptional in math)! Also, it never hurts to know a little bit more about a subject when people are arguing about it (For example if someone dares tell me "cupronickel" is Nickel Silver!!). I apologize for the time you have spent on me, and am extremely grateful for your patience.

Van Bryant II

MUSICandCHARACTER

I wouldn't expect an answer.

Most companies don't want to give away that kind of information anyway, and the ones who speak English at Jinbao probably don't know. If they are paying their workers $3 a day or $100 day, the probably don't want to say. It is not like it is a publicly held company that has stockholders to answer to.

I would venture you will get another polite email saying that while they appreciate the inquiry, that the information is unavailable.

Jim

Liberty Lips

Nickel Silver and Cupro-Nickel are very similar:
http://pages.zoom.co.uk/leveridge/nickel1.html

Note the following from the above website:

Nickel Silver, German Silver and related alloys

Resources for the metalsmith and collector

What is nickel silver?

Nickel Silver is the generic name for any of a range of non-precious bright silvery-grey metal alloys, composed of copper, nickel and zinc. Despite its name it contains no real silver. It is also commonly called German Silver.

Nickel Silver gets its name because its colour matches that of silver reasonably, and because it was used as a low status substitute for silver in the 19th century (There was then no effective trades desciption legislation to prevent confusion of this alloy with sterling silver).

Nickel Silver was (and still is) widely used for the commercial production of industrial components, housewares, flatware and cutlery, and as the metal substrate for silver-plated goods, hence the term EPNS = Electro-Plated Nickel Silver.

Nickel Silver was formerly widely used in costume jewellery and as the substrate for silver and gold plated jewellery. Due to the high propensity of nickel to induce dermatology problems and allergy, recent legislation in the EU has restricted the use of nickel in jewellery.
There are many different formulations of alloys which fall within the general term of "Nickel Silver". All contain copper, nickel and zinc, while some formulations may additionally include antimony, tin, lead or cadmium. A representative formulation (Alloy No.752) is 65% copper, 18% nickel, 17% zinc.

The US 5 cent coin, known as the "nickel" (introduced in 1866) is minted from an alloy of 75 per cent copper and 25 per cent nickel.

History

The family of Nickel Silver alloys has been known since the early 18th century and were initially developed in the far east. European traders brought back metalware goods which were described using the Indian word Tutenag or the Chinese word Paktong. This new alloy with its properties of strength, relatively easy working and silvery colour began to be used for a range of consumer goods, but it was not until the 1840s that the alloy was developed in its modern formulation. By then firms such as Elkington in England and Berndorf in Austria were looking for a stable, cheap, silverish metal as a substrate for the new process of electroplating. Hence EPNS was born, and its German equivalent Alpacca. Argentum and Electrum were other tradenames for electroplate.

The word nickel is shortened from of the German word Kupfernickel meaning niccolite ore. The word literally means copper demon, and was so called by German miners because it was often confused with genuine and valuable copper bearing ore.
From Websters Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)—
German silver (Chem.), a silver-white alloy, hard and tough, but malleable and ductile, and quite permanent in the air. It contains nickel, copper, and zinc in varying proportions, and was originally made from old copper slag at Henneberg. A small amount of iron is sometimes added to make it whiter and harder. It is essentially identical with the Chinese alloy packfong. It was formerly much used for tableware, knife handles, frames, cases, bearings of machinery, etc., but is now largely superseded by other white alloys.

Bibliography: A.Bonnin Tutenag and Paktong, Oxford 1924.
W. D. John, Paktong, Newport, Mon. 1970.
Paktong Keith Pinn 1999, Antique Collectors' Club; ISBN: 1851493247

Current and historical names for some metal alloys not in the Nickel Silver family.

What is Monel?

Monel (or monel metal) is a trademarked name for a range of corrosion-resistant bright metal alloys containing typically 67 percent nickel, 30 percent copper, and trace proportions of iron, manganese, and other elements. It is not a synonym for Nickel Silver and should not be confused with it. Monel is more expensive than Nickel Silver because of the high proportion of nickel and its more specialist applications.

What is Gun Metal

An alloy in the bronze family, used especially where resistance to wear and corrosion is desired. Clasically, an alloy of Cu 88 %, Sn 10%, Zn 2%, traditionally used for making cannon and other industrial products. Also used loosely to describe other dark-grey cast metals such as found in toys, badges, buckles etc.

What is Pinchbeck?

Pinchbeck is a yellow metal alloy in the brass family. Invented by Christopher Pinchbeck in the 18th century, it was claimed to be a secret recipe, but is generally believed to be 83% copper and 17% zinc. This ratio optimises the gold matching colour of the alloy. Commonly known as "poor man's gold", it and similar alloys were widely used in costume jewellery, and as the metal substrate for fire gilding and (from 1840) gilt electroplating. Now included under the generic name "Gilding Metal".

What is Spelter?

Spelter is an alternative name for the metal zinc, especially when used in decorative arts manufacture and casting. Spelter castings were often patinated to imitate more valuable bronze.

What is Tutania?

Tutania is an alloy of copper, antimony, zinc and tin patented in 1770 by William Tutin whose Birmingham firm (Tutin and Haycroft) used it in commercial production of housewares.

What is Cupro-Nickel?

A silvery-coloured binary alloy of copper and nickel. Widely used for minting coinage. It is also called copper-nickel, especially in US usage. In the UK it has been used since 1947 for "silver" coins, usually in an alloy of Cu 75%, Ni 25%. The alloy in the current 20p coin of the UK is Cu 84%, Ni 16%.

What is Bronze?

Any of various alloys of copper with tin and often zinc. Widely used for minting coinage. In the UK bronze coinage (the copper-coloured coins of 1860-1992) the alloy was Cu 95.5%, Sn 3%, Zn 1.5%

What is Nickel Brass?

Any of various brass coloured alloys of copper with zinc and a small component of nickel. Widely used for minting coinage. In the UK's nickel brass coinage (the twelve-sided threepenny piece) the alloy was Cu 79%, Zn 20%, Ni 1%.

What is "Britannia Metal" ?

Britannia metal is another name for pewter in its modern lead-free formulation, usually 91% tin, 7.5% antimony, 1.5% copper.

Gar-Alloy and Eraydo are now-defunct trademark pewter-type alloys with high zinc content.

uatrmpt

I wonder how common of a name Lucy Liu is among the Chinese.

Heavens2kadonka

Evil thunderstorms! Keeping me from internet and further corespondence...

Liberty Lips:

Y'know, thats really answered a lot of questions that I've always asked like "Monel pistons? What makes them so damned great?" Also, the Nickel silver thing really got me too. So "nickel silver" is the same thing as "cupronickel" and "cupro-nickel" or "German silver." Nickel silver does sound the most appealing though.

I still don't get a good vibe from regalmusic.com, though. I guess I'll mention the webadress to her when I have the time to reply.

Heavens2kadonka

From : Lucy Liu-Jinbao Music <sales@jinbaomusic.com>
Sent : Monday, July 5, 2004 7:37 PM
To : "V B" <heavens2kadonka@hotmail.com>
Subject : Re: Re


Hi Van,
Thanks for your explaination,I was a little interested in what you have tolde
me.
My name is Lucy Liu.
First I want to know what you want to do after you know all of these questions?
Second You said,that you have been to a forum of discussing JINBAO trumpet,can
you let me know why they disccus our trumpet?Can you let me know which company
do it?

Thanks for your attention.

Best Regards

Lucy

Heavens2kadonka

Dang it, I'm having an EXTREMELY hard time staying connected (and at 28800 bps, no less). I will (hopefully) be able to send a reply later on. I haven't even been able to post my fifth day review on my 1503!!