Endurance above high G

Double_G · 09-29-2005, 07:21 PM

Help me please. I'm in a bad way. This year half time show is a killer. It is all nearly scream parts for 1st trumpet and I'm seriously have endurance issues from the middle of the third song through the fourth to the end. It's killing chops on top of that. I can barely play at all after practice in the evenings. It's getting on my nerves. Our lead trumpet yells at me everytime I drop out to take a second. And our third chair player doesn't play full enough to sustain if two people drop out (me for a moment with the mouthpiece away from the lips, the lead player to yell when I take my moment).

Plus, our sectionals are held on Mondays before practice and our "section leader's" (who happens to be our lead player) idea of building up endurance is making us play screaming passages over and over again while he sits back and listens to us force our way through it. Then he complains we drop out and are lazy. We have no chops left because of his twisted idea of building endurance.

So, anybody has some exercises I can do to increase endurance and help be able to withstand our "sectionals" if you can call blowing your brains out on command a sectional or even practice.

Sorry, I'm bitter.

Bear · 09-29-2005, 07:33 PM

Well, to start off. I'd either take the section leader out back and.... or you can ask him to show you how it's supposed to sound, ask him to play it how he wants it and make him play it over and over and over. "Do you want this note longer then? Can you play it like you want it?" Hopefully, he'll be smart enough to see what he's doin'. If not, ruin his own chops, lol.

You can't worry/put the blame on the third player, I'm sure he's havin' issues too.

Something you can suggest to your section leader is to take the passages down an octave to hear the notes, get the style, etc and then take it up when you are ready to play it. If he's unwilling to back off a lil, sometimes you have to go above his/her head to the director.

Some excercises for endurance? Well, face time.
1. Long low tones including pedals without moving the chops to take a breathe (breath through nose).
2. Equipment change could help. Smaller mpc, tighter/looser horn depending on preferences.
3. etc. Just be smart and know that your chops come first. Killing them won't give you more endurance.

Hope this helps a lil. Good luck.

Double_G · 09-29-2005, 07:48 PM

I'm not blaming anything on Joey i.e. the third player. He is working on his ability to play fuller. And most of that stuff has already been attempted. He takes it as a chance to show off rather than a me make him look bad.

Thanks for the ideas though. I'm off to play long tones.

Chris4 · 09-29-2005, 09:41 PM

I think that after awhile when you resort to forcing your way through the song your desperation to get through it may be making you forget basic fundamentals that could lead to cut endurance. You may resort to:

1.too much mpc pressure
2.too much lip tension
3.not enough support
4.not enough air
etc..

These minor mistakes could be seriously cutting your endurance and your upper register. You may be doing these mistakes withoput even realizing it. My advice to you would be to stop these things before they happen. If you do that, you'll likely see an improvement in your endurance. Good luck.

Chris

Double_G · 09-29-2005, 09:52 PM

I know I use to much mouthpiece pressure, but I'm not sure how to rid myself of the habit. Got any tips? That would be very useful.

Chris4 · 09-29-2005, 10:24 PM

Use corners to make aperture smaller
Let the air do the work

Here's one of the best exercises I know of for reducing pressure:

Lay your trumpet on its side, flat on your palm and do now grip it in any way. All you have to do is lip slurs. Start on bottom C and slur up as high as you comfortably can. Remember, the key here is air and not pressure. You will know you're doing it wrong if your horn starts to slide on your hand. Just do lip slurs up and down, and long tones on those notes as well.

I've also seen great results from people who did there daily practicing very softly. It's great for reducing pressure. Hope this helps.

Chris

Double_G · 09-29-2005, 11:05 PM

Ok, I have another question then. I obviously don't have great air pressure because the started moving on C in the midle of the staff. Got any tips on pushing more air or increasing lung capacity to where I can push more air.

Chris4 · 09-30-2005, 07:49 PM

The only exercises I use that helps increase how you use your air and how much you hold are the hold-till-empty exercises in the BE book. It is basically just long tones and lip slurs played with a full sound where you hold the bottom note until empty. You go from 2nd line G , hold until empty then to F and so on until you get to low C. The next exercise is just slurring from 2nd line G to low C/hold till empty and so on until you get to low F#. These exercises are easy, but are great for tapping into resources you don't even know you have. It helps you hold pitches longer, breathe more deeply, and feel more energized.

Chris

JunkyT · 09-30-2005, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris4

Lay your trumpet on its side, flat on your palm and do now grip it in any way. all you have to do is lip slurs. start on bottom C and slur up as high as you comfortably can. remember, the key here is air and not pressure. you will know you're doing it wrong if your horn starts to slide on your hand. just do lip slurs up and down, and long tones on those notes as well

chirs...this is a fantastic exercise! just what i've been looking for.

thanks for posting.
jason

Chris4 · 09-30-2005, 08:55 PM

Your welcome Jason! That exercise worked well for me and just about everyone else I know who had the problem of using too much pressure. It helps a lot.

Chris

09-29-2005, 07:21 PM	#1 (permalink)
Double_G Pianissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Gordonsville, TN Posts: 195	Endurance above high G Help me please. I'm in a bad way. This year half time show is a killer. It is all nearly scream parts for 1st trumpet and I'm seriously have endurance issues from the middle of the third song through the fourth to the end. It's killing chops on top of that. I can barely play at all after practice in the evenings. It's getting on my nerves. Our lead trumpet yells at me everytime I drop out to take a second. And our third chair player doesn't play full enough to sustain if two people drop out (me for a moment with the mouthpiece away from the lips, the lead player to yell when I take my moment). Plus, our sectionals are held on Mondays before practice and our "section leader's" (who happens to be our lead player) idea of building up endurance is making us play screaming passages over and over again while he sits back and listens to us force our way through it. Then he complains we drop out and are lazy. We have no chops left because of his twisted idea of building endurance. So, anybody has some exercises I can do to increase endurance and help be able to withstand our "sectionals" if you can call blowing your brains out on command a sectional or even practice. Sorry, I'm bitter. __________________ King Silver Flair 2055S Getzen 770 SG Gold Series Bundy Series II cornet Music is a more potent instrument than any other for education. -Plato

09-29-2005, 07:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
Double_G Pianissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Gordonsville, TN Posts: 195	I'm not blaming anything on Joey i.e. the third player. He is working on his ability to play fuller. And most of that stuff has already been attempted. He takes it as a chance to show off rather than a me make him look bad. Thanks for the ideas though. I'm off to play long tones. __________________ King Silver Flair 2055S Getzen 770 SG Gold Series Bundy Series II cornet Music is a more potent instrument than any other for education. -Plato

09-29-2005, 09:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
Chris4 Pianissimo User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 101	I think that after awhile when you resort to forcing your way through the song your desperation to get through it may be making you forget basic fundamentals that could lead to cut endurance. You may resort to: 1.too much mpc pressure 2.too much lip tension 3.not enough support 4.not enough air etc.. These minor mistakes could be seriously cutting your endurance and your upper register. You may be doing these mistakes withoput even realizing it. My advice to you would be to stop these things before they happen. If you do that, you'll likely see an improvement in your endurance. Good luck. Chris __________________ Check Out my Forum TrumpetChat.myfreeforum.org Yamaha Xeno RGS Yamaha 2320 Parduba Double-Cup #6

09-29-2005, 09:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
Double_G Pianissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Gordonsville, TN Posts: 195	I know I use to much mouthpiece pressure, but I'm not sure how to rid myself of the habit. Got any tips? That would be very useful. __________________ King Silver Flair 2055S Getzen 770 SG Gold Series Bundy Series II cornet Music is a more potent instrument than any other for education. -Plato

09-29-2005, 10:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
Chris4 Pianissimo User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 101	Use corners to make aperture smaller Let the air do the work Here's one of the best exercises I know of for reducing pressure: Lay your trumpet on its side, flat on your palm and do now grip it in any way. All you have to do is lip slurs. Start on bottom C and slur up as high as you comfortably can. Remember, the key here is air and not pressure. You will know you're doing it wrong if your horn starts to slide on your hand. Just do lip slurs up and down, and long tones on those notes as well. I've also seen great results from people who did there daily practicing very softly. It's great for reducing pressure. Hope this helps. Chris __________________ Check Out my Forum TrumpetChat.myfreeforum.org Yamaha Xeno RGS Yamaha 2320 Parduba Double-Cup #6

09-29-2005, 07:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bear Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: CO Posts: 805	Well, to start off. I'd either take the section leader out back and.... or you can ask him to show you how it's supposed to sound, ask him to play it how he wants it and make him play it over and over and over. "Do you want this note longer then? Can you play it like you want it?" Hopefully, he'll be smart enough to see what he's doin'. If not, ruin his own chops, lol. You can't worry/put the blame on the third player, I'm sure he's havin' issues too. Something you can suggest to your section leader is to take the passages down an octave to hear the notes, get the style, etc and then take it up when you are ready to play it. If he's unwilling to back off a lil, sometimes you have to go above his/her head to the director. Some excercises for endurance? Well, face time. 1. Long low tones including pedals without moving the chops to take a breathe (breath through nose). 2. Equipment change could help. Smaller mpc, tighter/looser horn depending on preferences. 3. etc. Just be smart and know that your chops come first. Killing them won't give you more endurance. Hope this helps a lil. Good luck.

09-29-2005, 11:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
Double_G Pianissimo User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Gordonsville, TN Posts: 195	Ok, I have another question then. I obviously don't have great air pressure because the started moving on C in the midle of the staff. Got any tips on pushing more air or increasing lung capacity to where I can push more air. __________________ King Silver Flair 2055S Getzen 770 SG Gold Series Bundy Series II cornet Music is a more potent instrument than any other for education. -Plato

09-30-2005, 07:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
Chris4 Pianissimo User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 101	The only exercises I use that helps increase how you use your air and how much you hold are the hold-till-empty exercises in the BE book. It is basically just long tones and lip slurs played with a full sound where you hold the bottom note until empty. You go from 2nd line G , hold until empty then to F and so on until you get to low C. The next exercise is just slurring from 2nd line G to low C/hold till empty and so on until you get to low F#. These exercises are easy, but are great for tapping into resources you don't even know you have. It helps you hold pitches longer, breathe more deeply, and feel more energized. Chris __________________ Check Out my Forum TrumpetChat.myfreeforum.org Yamaha Xeno RGS Yamaha 2320 Parduba Double-Cup #6

09-30-2005, 08:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
Chris4 Pianissimo User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 101	Your welcome Jason! That exercise worked well for me and just about everyone else I know who had the problem of using too much pressure. It helps a lot. Chris __________________ Check Out my Forum TrumpetChat.myfreeforum.org Yamaha Xeno RGS Yamaha 2320 Parduba Double-Cup #6

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