Flutter tonguing to help slurs

Jimi Michiel · 02-12-2006, 07:27 PM

Hi Manny,
I've been working a lot in my warmup to get my slurring more even. I tried some of the exercises you gave me, but I have found it particularly helpful to try slurring fifths and octaves while flutter-tonguing. If I don't use my air (and muscles) right, the slur comes out horribly. When I do use my air and muscles correctly, the slur comes out fine.
Although the exercises you gave me help, it's hard for me to tell if I am doing it "right," whereas it's much more clearer with the flutter-tonguing. Does this make sense?
-Jimi

gringoloco · 02-12-2006, 07:38 PM

When I studied with Jim Darling in Cleveland, he used to have us practice passages flutter-tongued. I think the point was the air support involved. To maintain the flutter, you have to have good support. Could be the same type of thing more specifically applied to slurs.

Manny Laureano · 02-12-2006, 10:10 PM

Jimi,

I don't have any experience with that techinique but gringo may well be right.

ML

trumpjosh · 02-13-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gringoloco

When I studied with Jim Darling in Cleveland, he used to have us practice passages flutter-tongued. I think the point was the air support involved. To maintain the flutter, you have to have good support. Could be the same type of thing more specifically applied to slurs.

It's also good for forcing you to rely less on tongue level to play your upper register. Try playing scales from your middle register on up while slurring and flutter-tonguing. See if you can maintain the flutter. Requires a lot of air and chops!

tpter1 · 02-13-2006, 08:40 PM

A different use of flutter tonguing comes from Dave Hickman in developing crisp articulations. My teacher (a Hickman student) used this with me in the Arban syncopation studies. He would have me flutter tongue either an entire etude or certain notes (the beginning of the bar, an 1/8 in 1/8th-1/16th combinations or the quarter in 1/8-1/4-1/8 studies, etc). It worked very well for me, and I use it now with my students that have difficulty achieveing a crisp "pop" on their articulations.

Spleeyah! · 03-02-2006, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gringoloco

...To maintain the flutter, you have to have good support. Could be the same type of thing more specifically applied to slurs.

EXACTLY!!

It's impossible to flutter with slow/unsupported air. When you lose the flutter, it shows where the inconsistancies are in your air (i.e - changing your air for different registers). It exposes alot.

tromj · 03-03-2006, 12:24 AM

I used this technique, also to emphasize air support, with Doug Hedwig.

thomashooten · 03-03-2006, 08:12 AM

another Idea is to notice the speed of your flutter tongue.
a fast tight sound could mean your tongue is too rigid.
I think when you slur while fluttering the speed could increase while sluring up. this could show that you may be using "too much" tongue and not enough focus with the chops or air support
Just a thought

02-12-2006, 07:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
Jimi Michiel Forte User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 1,751	Flutter tonguing to help slurs Hi Manny, I've been working a lot in my warmup to get my slurring more even. I tried some of the exercises you gave me, but I have found it particularly helpful to try slurring fifths and octaves while flutter-tonguing. If I don't use my air (and muscles) right, the slur comes out horribly. When I do use my air and muscles correctly, the slur comes out fine. Although the exercises you gave me help, it's hard for me to tell if I am doing it "right," whereas it's much more clearer with the flutter-tonguing. Does this make sense? -Jimi __________________

02-12-2006, 07:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
gringoloco New Friend Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Merida, Yucatan Posts: 34	When I studied with Jim Darling in Cleveland, he used to have us practice passages flutter-tongued. I think the point was the air support involved. To maintain the flutter, you have to have good support. Could be the same type of thing more specifically applied to slurs. __________________ Be well, Rob

02-13-2006, 08:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
tpter1 Forte User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern New York Posts: 2,309	A different use of flutter tonguing comes from Dave Hickman in developing crisp articulations. My teacher (a Hickman student) used this with me in the Arban syncopation studies. He would have me flutter tongue either an entire etude or certain notes (the beginning of the bar, an 1/8 in 1/8th-1/16th combinations or the quarter in 1/8-1/4-1/8 studies, etc). It worked very well for me, and I use it now with my students that have difficulty achieveing a crisp "pop" on their articulations. __________________ -Glenn "Roses have thorns; shining waters mud. Clouds and eclipses stain the moon and the sun; and history reeks of the wrongs we have done. After today, after today, consider me gone."- Sting

03-03-2006, 12:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
tromj Piano User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Teaneck, NJ Posts: 319	I used this technique, also to emphasize air support, with Doug Hedwig. __________________ Bach 37 Yamaha 8310Z Yamaha 631 Flugel Getzen 850 Cornet Yamaha Picc Yamaha Xeno C 8445 Monette B1-5M, B1-5F, B1-5D cornet, Stork 3P, Monette C1-5M

03-03-2006, 08:12 AM	#8 (permalink)
thomashooten Pianissimo User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 91	Flutter another Idea is to notice the speed of your flutter tongue. a fast tight sound could mean your tongue is too rigid. I think when you slur while fluttering the speed could increase while sluring up. this could show that you may be using "too much" tongue and not enough focus with the chops or air support Just a thought

02-12-2006, 10:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	Jimi, I don't have any experience with that techinique but gringo may well be right. ML

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