Getting your double g back!

Vulgano Brother · 10-10-2006, 08:18 PM

When is a double g not a double g? It would seem to depend on whom we talk to. Theorists and violists would maintain that what we call a “double C” (c4), is in fact a b-flat 3, or in other words, a “high Bb.” This is because notes names are based on the lowest note of a scale starting on c, be it Sub-Contra C or whatever, and all the ascending notes belong to the same species. Hence, our double g must be higher, not lower, than a double c.

Trumpet players are not violists, however, and those that are theorists are thankfully first and foremost trumpet players.

In trumpet-speak of ages ago our pedal c was called “Basso.” Our low g was called “Vulgano.” Middle c, e, and g belonged to the “Principale” player. The “Clarini” got to spend most their time between c and high c, sometimes dipping down to what was for them a “low” g (even as low as the Vulgano g, as in the Christmas Oratorio or up to a double g in Michael Haydn). A notated c an octave above high c is rightfully called a double c, and for trumpet players the g below that may be rightfully considered a double g. That does not, however, excuse us for playing without taste (unless attacking violists).

Brekelefuw · 10-10-2006, 08:27 PM

bilboinsa · 10-10-2006, 10:55 PM

In my world, "high" begins with the C above staff. No dubbas until Dubba C then Dubba D. Dubba E, etc... Unfair that a B just one half-step below high C is not considered "high". Probably ignorant, but I think that is what most trumpeters I know refer to as well.

John P · 10-10-2006, 11:51 PM

I'd consider the B (and even the Bb) below dubba C to be a dubba B. If someone told me to demonstrate a high B, for whatever reason, I'd play the one right below high C. I've never heard a dubba B called "high B."

While my definition of the dubba range technically starts at Bb, I usually call G's and A's dubbas, just because it sounds cooler :)

trumpetmike · 10-11-2006, 04:08 AM

I find the easiest way to refer to notes is with common reference - rather than double G, I would suggest calling it G over high C, or G over double C - depending which one you believe to be the double G.

_TrumpeT_ · 10-11-2006, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulgano Brother

In trumpet-speak of ages ago our pedal c was called “Basso.” Our low g was called “Vulgano.” Middle c, e, and g belonged to the “Principale” player. The “Clarini” got to spend most their time between c and high c, sometimes dipping down to what was for them a “low” g (even as low as the Vulgano g, as in the Christmas Oratorio or up to a double g in Michael Haydn).

Wow the terminology is very interesting. Did the same terms apply regardless of the key of the trumpet?

rowuk · 10-11-2006, 07:16 AM

G-wizz- this gives an entirely different meaning to the air on a G string by Bach.....

Great research Vulgano Brother! Do you have suggestions for finding more info?

Up until around 1850 it was common practice to give trumpet players transposed parts and specify trumpet in whatever key. This means that Basso would be pedal c on a C trumpet and d on a D trumpet for instance(the same for vulgano....). The classical and early romantic period didn't really have any "high" notes. I believe the trumpet guilds fell out of favor back then with composers and orchestras and the parts were reduced to function tones.

Doesn't the double octave officially start with A and not G (would explain why some trumpet players can play the G in the Brandenburg but struggle with the A.........)?

Eclipsehornplayer · 10-11-2006, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brekelefuw

Egads......

I can't play up there yet so I don't worry about it.

Good work though; it was a good read!

Vulgano Brother · 10-11-2006, 01:54 PM

Naming notes is a fascinating diversion, but it is our goal to “own” the notes. If a note belongs to me, I can name it whatever I want to. I may find that calling a note a double g helps get my air and energy pumped up enough to play it – great! If I freak out at the “double,” if I panic and choke, maybe calling it something else will help me play it – great!

10-10-2006, 08:18 PM	#1
Vulgano Brother Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 4,253	Getting your double g back! When is a double g not a double g? It would seem to depend on whom we talk to. Theorists and violists would maintain that what we call a “double C” (c4), is in fact a b-flat 3, or in other words, a “high Bb.” This is because notes names are based on the lowest note of a scale starting on c, be it Sub-Contra C or whatever, and all the ascending notes belong to the same species. Hence, our double g must be higher, not lower, than a double c. Trumpet players are not violists, however, and those that are theorists are thankfully first and foremost trumpet players. In trumpet-speak of ages ago our pedal c was called “Basso.” Our low g was called “Vulgano.” Middle c, e, and g belonged to the “Principale” player. The “Clarini” got to spend most their time between c and high c, sometimes dipping down to what was for them a “low” g (even as low as the Vulgano g, as in the Christmas Oratorio or up to a double g in Michael Haydn). A notated c an octave above high c is rightfully called a double c, and for trumpet players the g below that may be rightfully considered a double g. That does not, however, excuse us for playing without taste (unless attacking violists). __________________ "A tool good enough to be so used and not too good" C.S. Lewis That Hideous Strength www.letsbuildhope.org

10-10-2006, 10:55 PM	#3
bilboinsa Piano User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 274	In my world, "high" begins with the C above staff. No dubbas until Dubba C then Dubba D. Dubba E, etc... Unfair that a B just one half-step below high C is not considered "high". Probably ignorant, but I think that is what most trumpeters I know refer to as well. __________________ Doug Walsdorf Schilke B2 Kanstul 1525 1927 Conn 22B New York Symphony "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort." http://www.myspace.com/schilkeB2 Member: http://xeml.buglesacrossamerica.org/index.xeml

10-10-2006, 11:51 PM	#4
John P Piano User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Camp Hill, PA Posts: 326	I'd consider the B (and even the Bb) below dubba C to be a dubba B. If someone told me to demonstrate a high B, for whatever reason, I'd play the one right below high C. I've never heard a dubba B called "high B." While my definition of the dubba range technically starts at Bb, I usually call G's and A's dubbas, just because it sounds cooler :) __________________ JP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAF67ua91Dk www.myspace.com/jmpowlison

10-11-2006, 07:16 AM	#7
rowuk Moderator Utimate User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 7,355	G-wizz- this gives an entirely different meaning to the air on a G string by Bach..... Great research Vulgano Brother! Do you have suggestions for finding more info? Up until around 1850 it was common practice to give trumpet players transposed parts and specify trumpet in whatever key. This means that Basso would be pedal c on a C trumpet and d on a D trumpet for instance(the same for vulgano....). The classical and early romantic period didn't really have any "high" notes. I believe the trumpet guilds fell out of favor back then with composers and orchestras and the parts were reduced to function tones. Doesn't the double octave officially start with A and not G (would explain why some trumpet players can play the G in the Brandenburg but struggle with the A.........)? __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

10-11-2006, 01:54 PM	#9
Vulgano Brother Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 4,253	Naming notes is a fascinating diversion, but it is our goal to “own” the notes. If a note belongs to me, I can name it whatever I want to. I may find that calling a note a double g helps get my air and energy pumped up enough to play it – great! If I freak out at the “double,” if I panic and choke, maybe calling it something else will help me play it – great! __________________ "A tool good enough to be so used and not too good" C.S. Lewis That Hideous Strength www.letsbuildhope.org

10-10-2006, 08:27 PM	#2
Brekelefuw Forte User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,532

10-11-2006, 04:08 AM	#5
trumpetmike Forte User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Farnham (a place too smal Posts: 1,202	I find the easiest way to refer to notes is with common reference - rather than double G, I would suggest calling it G over high C, or G over double C - depending which one you believe to be the double G.

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