Gradually increasing use of smaller trumpets

_TrumpeT_ · 05-13-2006, 06:17 AM

I've read that high Bb/A trumpets were once considered gimmicks. I'm assuming Maurice Andre's playing had an impact on those opinions. Were there any key players in America who popularised the use of these trumpets?

wiseone2 · 05-13-2006, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _TrumpeT_

I've read that high Bb/A trumpets were once considered gimmicks. I'm assuming Maurice Andre's playing had an impact on those opinions. Were there any key players in America who popularised the use of these trumpets?

Sorry to jump in before Manny...........
Long before Andre, players in America's orchestras used higher horns. When I attended Philadelphia Orchestra concerts in the fifties, Sam Krauss seemed to play every horn except the Bb trumpet. Vacchiano, Mager, Caston and many others were playing higher pitched trumpets.
Andre's contribution, along with Wobisch, Scherbaum and many others, was bringing the trumpet to the front of the orchestra. Scherbaum was probably THE pioneer high trumpet player. Before him, there was no one playing trumpet concerti with orchestras.
Wilmer

Manny Laureano · 05-13-2006, 09:18 AM

The first player of any repute that I was made aware of that used the piccolo trumpet was Benny Baker who actually played the Brandenburg Concerto with Toscanini. Benny Baker was a huge free lance player who was asked, in the early relationship of the maestro and NBC, to play the piece. I think Glantz wanted no part of it.

I heard a recording of it at the home of Arthur Statter who played extra with NBC. It was very good although todays players would likely scoff because he took some parts of it down an octave but the performance was lovely nonetheless. I'm not aware of an American players playing the piccolo before that in any major venue.

ML

Johntpt · 05-13-2006, 11:22 AM

That performance used to be available on this CD:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...600677-7099622

This CD was never released in the USA because of copyright issues with NBC, and appears to now be out of print even internationally. These were however available here in Mexico rather inexpensively, and I picked the ones I could find, including this one. The Brandenburg is interesting to say the least, and is probably one of the first American performances on trumpet. There were others using a horn or even soprano saxophone! Also in this series is a nice Schuman 2 with some interesting re-writing of the trumpet part, and an exciting Heldenleben.

JU

trptcolin · 05-13-2006, 11:29 AM

Great info---I'd not heard of Benny Baker before, I'm sorry to say.

I hesitate to state the obvious, _TrumpeT_, but if you're just asking about players IN America (not necessarily American citizens) helping to popularize the piccolo trumpet, Fred Mills is somebody to think about. I never had the good fortune to hear the Canadian Brass live when he was playing with them, but he says eventually his shows became something like 75% on piccolo trumpet. I know he was the first guy I heard play the piccolo really beautifully.

Colin

Siegtrmpt · 05-17-2006, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trptcolin

Great info---I'd not heard of Benny Baker before, I'm sorry to say.

Benny Baker was also Doc Severinsen's trumpet teacher. Here's an article to get you started. http://www.trumpetguild.org/pdf/2000.../0010cald2.pdf

cleanhead77 · 05-17-2006, 10:28 PM

There is a legend that Cootie Williams auditioned to play the Brandenberg and cut it, but was advised not to do it because it would hurt his jazz image. This was back around 1940 (?) or so. So, he didn't do it. Anybody have any comments on this?

Bill Barnes

PS: My first teacher was Benny Baker, but you'd never know it. He also sold me a nice King Sterling Master Model cornet.

wiseone2 · 05-18-2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cleanhead77

There is a legend that Cootie Williams auditioned to play the Brandenberg and cut it, but was advised not to do it because it would hurt his jazz image. This was back around 1940 (?) or so. So, he didn't do it. Anybody have any comments on this?

Bill Barnes

PS: My first teacher was Benny Baker, but you'd never know it. He also sold me a nice King Sterling Master Model cornet.

You're kidding.
Wilmer

cleanhead77 · 05-18-2006, 10:44 AM

Hi Wiseone:
A legend is just that - a legend.The legend goes further to claim he did it on his regular Bb ! And King Arthur slew drogons ! However if your comment addresses the fact I had lessons with Benny Baker I can understand your incredulity.

Bill Barnes

Manny Laureano · 05-18-2006, 11:37 AM

Maurice Murphy of the LSO did it on the large Bb!

Check with the Brits on the forum. I've heard that confirmed by a number of "brothers across the pond".

ML

05-13-2006, 06:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
_TrumpeT_ Piano User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 312	Gradually increasing use of smaller trumpets I've read that high Bb/A trumpets were once considered gimmicks. I'm assuming Maurice Andre's playing had an impact on those opinions. Were there any key players in America who popularised the use of these trumpets?

05-17-2006, 10:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
cleanhead77 New Friend Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 8	There is a legend that Cootie Williams auditioned to play the Brandenberg and cut it, but was advised not to do it because it would hurt his jazz image. This was back around 1940 (?) or so. So, he didn't do it. Anybody have any comments on this? Bill Barnes PS: My first teacher was Benny Baker, but you'd never know it. He also sold me a nice King Sterling Master Model cornet. __________________ so many mouthpieces, so little time.......

05-18-2006, 10:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
cleanhead77 New Friend Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 8	Hi Wiseone: A legend is just that - a legend.The legend goes further to claim he did it on his regular Bb ! And King Arthur slew drogons ! However if your comment addresses the fact I had lessons with Benny Baker I can understand your incredulity. Bill Barnes __________________ so many mouthpieces, so little time.......

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05-13-2006, 09:18 AM	#3 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	The first player of any repute that I was made aware of that used the piccolo trumpet was Benny Baker who actually played the Brandenburg Concerto with Toscanini. Benny Baker was a huge free lance player who was asked, in the early relationship of the maestro and NBC, to play the piece. I think Glantz wanted no part of it. I heard a recording of it at the home of Arthur Statter who played extra with NBC. It was very good although todays players would likely scoff because he took some parts of it down an octave but the performance was lovely nonetheless. I'm not aware of an American players playing the piccolo before that in any major venue. ML

05-13-2006, 11:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
Johntpt Pianissimo User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Toluca, Mexico Posts: 158	That performance used to be available on this CD: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...600677-7099622 This CD was never released in the USA because of copyright issues with NBC, and appears to now be out of print even internationally. These were however available here in Mexico rather inexpensively, and I picked the ones I could find, including this one. The Brandenburg is interesting to say the least, and is probably one of the first American performances on trumpet. There were others using a horn or even soprano saxophone! Also in this series is a nice Schuman 2 with some interesting re-writing of the trumpet part, and an exciting Heldenleben. JU

05-13-2006, 11:29 AM	#5 (permalink)
trptcolin New Friend Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 31	Great info---I'd not heard of Benny Baker before, I'm sorry to say. I hesitate to state the obvious, _TrumpeT_, but if you're just asking about players IN America (not necessarily American citizens) helping to popularize the piccolo trumpet, Fred Mills is somebody to think about. I never had the good fortune to hear the Canadian Brass live when he was playing with them, but he says eventually his shows became something like 75% on piccolo trumpet. I know he was the first guy I heard play the piccolo really beautifully. Colin

05-18-2006, 11:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	Maurice Murphy of the LSO did it on the large Bb! Check with the Brits on the forum. I've heard that confirmed by a number of "brothers across the pond". ML

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