john7401

I've started some new range building techniques that I do every other day to really work my lips, but about how long should I excpect to wait till I start noticing it actually improve my range?

Also would it be better to do these excersices every day? They really do make my lips work and I'm not sure if it would be better to treat it as a normal excersice routine where I do it one day and rest the next. I do alot of just regualar practice on the off days.

Brekelefuw

There is no way we can give an answer for how long it will take.
For me, my ranged jumped dramatically in a very short time because I figured out how to properly use my tongue. Now I am working on filling that sound out and making it speak like a lead player.

Others might gain a semitone every 6 months or so. Everyone is different.

__________________
Schilke B3L
Schilke XA1
Bach 37 180 ML
Chinese custom horn
Yamaha 6310G
Wedge 5B, 5A and 5FLG

After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. ~Aldous Huxley

dizforprez

How are you even quantifying improvment?

If I can play one note higher today than yesterday does that mean my range has improved?

john7401

I define it as an overall increase in the average playing range capable over time.

SFPat

Obviously, improvement is measured individually. When I practice the high range exercise, I can comfortably play a high C (well rested, mentally focused on the note) but have no confidence in playing the same note in a musical piece (say several minutes into the piece and focused on the overall piece, not a single note). Have I improved my range? In my opinion, playing the note is different than using the note. As others have said, the purpose is to make music.

ComeBackKid

This is a very good definition - from a statistics viewpoint. But, unless you are prepared to actually collect the data, take statistical samples, and then perform a statistical calculation called "Analysis of Variance" (ANOVA), this may not be useful in the short term. In reality, it will likely take months to notice any real difference and even then it may not be in actual range but rather in your confidence in that range.

When I started my comeback attempt 6 months ago, I could hit high C but it was barely a squeak and only when I was fresh in a new practice session - after 5 minutes I couldn't even hit G on top of staff. Now, 6 months later, I can hit high E - but it is barely a squeak and only when I am fresh. But, I can hit high C consistently, with clarity, and I can sustain it even after practicing for an hour. To me, that is a useful range increase. And, I didn't need to do ANOVA to figure that out. It just sounds better.

So, don't look for a miracle or a mathematical solution. Just practice and look for those times when the upper notes sound better and sustain longer. You will notice the progress as long as you are not doing something to ruin your chops.

__________________
Come-Back Kid
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Selmer Invicta London (T)
Olds SuperStar (T)
Olds Super (2T)
Olds Special (2T+C)
Olds Ambassador (9T+7C)
Andreas Eastman (2T)
Conn Director (T+C)
King Cleveland Superior (T+C)
Holton (T602+C605 Shep Crk)
Holton Collegiate (T+C)
Blessing (T+C)
Yamaha (T+C)
Getzen 300
Amati ATR213
(+Revelle, Bundy, Alcazar, & ?)

john7401

Ok thanks to all of your comments

I'll keep doing the range excercises every other day and the only other thing I'll do is talk to my private instructor about using my tounge to direct the airflow for higher notes.

rowuk

WHO gave you those exercizes? Is your private instructor involved, or is this your idea?

I think most range studies for most players are DUMB. Why? Because great range can be acquired just using standard Clarke and Arban with some additional lip slurs.

The problems start with breathing, then synchronizing the rest.

Depending on the exercizes and the true situation with your breathing and body use, your range and playing could get WORSE and never better.

The big picture is important. Without that, exercizes are pretty much useless.

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

john7401

Is it dumb to at least give it a try and if it doesn't work out move on?

I've been playing for 4+1/2 years and have trouble hitting a G above the staff with good volume in the middle of a song. Either I need to do some range building or embochure/breath reworking right? Even though I have a clear mature sound it doesn't do me any good if I can't use it in a song because the notes are too hard to hit.

rowuk

John,
one does not need range exercizes for standard playing up to D or E above the staff. They need a solid routine, patience and determination.

Just like taking demerol for undetermined pain is "dumb", range exercizes to patch bad playing habits is no different.

The biggest things in the way of range are not the chops or the brute strength of the face. Bad breathing, tense body and too much pressure on the lips are #1, 2 and 3.

You are most likely wasting your time with chop exercizes. getting your breathing and body use straightened out as well as pressure off of the upper lip would be much more intelligent.

You asked how long it would take, I gave you a qualified answer. Now you confirm my suspicions that your present playing has problems. Believe me, the primary problem is not your chops!

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.