View Poll Results: How do YOU play your trumpet?

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  • Tounge-controlled embrochure

    5 14.71%
  • Some other such method

    3 8.82%
  • Doing nothing other than putting your own embrochure on the trumpet and blowing

    26 76.47%
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Trumpet Discussion Discuss How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such? in the General forums; Just out of curiousity, how many of you trumpet players out there use a tounge controlled embrochure, how many use ...
  1. #1
    Pianissimo User HSOtrumpet1's Avatar
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    Nov 2008

    How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

    Just out of curiousity, how many of you trumpet players out there use a tounge controlled embrochure, how many use some other sort of "method" like this to play, and how many just play, just get out the notes without doing anything more than putting thier lips on the trumpet in a "slightly puckered smile" and blow?

  2. #2
    Pianissimo User
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    Aug 2009

    Re: How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

    If I've learned one thing in my recent return to the trumpet it's that it's almost impossible [for me] to understand just what the heck is happening in someone else's mouth.

    Case in point: earlier today I tried to google a description of "TCE" that made sense to me, and I failed to understand anything. Anyone here want to go over this again?

  3. #3
    Forte User NickD's Avatar
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    Feb 2004
    Chicago northern suburbs

    Re: How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

    I use a hybridization of it. Now, this is the way I explain it. Jerry and hard core TCE guys my say it differently. That's cool, too!

    I set the bottom of the tip of my tongue on the top biting edge of my bottom teeth. The front of the tip of my tongue nudges the back of my lower lip. I achieve a t-tongue by slightly raising the middle of the top front of my tongue to touch the bottom biting edge of the upper teeth and even slightly plugging the lip aperture. I think of a spit buzz throughout.

    This clip is about the lo-gear high gear, but there you can see a little about the tongue works there, too.

    [ame=]YouTube - Hi-Lo-Gear on Ring Visualizer[/ame]

    Here is some discussion about long tones in which I address this a bit.

    See a couple of minutes in. I do mis-state one thing. I don't curl my lower lip over the teeth. I sort of tuck it in front of the bottom teeth.

    [ame=]YouTube - Long Tones - Sotto Voce[/ame]

    Here I get into the TCE thing in the context of lip buzzing. I get into it around 2:16.

    [ame=]YouTube - Embouchure Design Revisited[/ame]

    Finally, I discuss a bot more carefully how I hold my lips in this little segment. This clip is NOT about TCE per se, but I just want to clarify the point that I muddied a bit in the second clip above.

    [ame=]YouTube - Fascination/Bottom-out[/ame]

    I hope this stuff sort of helps. There is a whole forum dedicated to this over on another forum site which shall not be named!

    OK, gotta go! I'm officially on vacation now!


  4. #4
    Forte User Al Innella's Avatar
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    Aug 2007
    Levittown , NY

    Re: How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

    I do pretty much what Nick D described except I try to keep the tip of my tongue more behind the lower teeth and away from my lip, as I go higher I think of moving the back of my tongue forward and making a "hissing" sound" so for the upper register the tip of my tongue is always anchored behind my bottom teeth.

  5. #5
    Forte User Bob Grier's Avatar
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    May 2007
    Greensboro, NC

    Re: How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

    I don't use TCE. I see that it work for some people but not for me. I just use regular tonguing and I have what I need to play what I need to play.
    Bob Grier, An Old Pro
    Web Cam trumpet & jazz improvisation lessons

  6. #6
    New Friend Rocketman's Avatar
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    May 2004

    Re: How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

    I'm a 10-year student of Jerome Callet so it's all about the use of the tongue in the embouchure for me. I feel quite confident when I say that ALL great trumpet players use their tongues as an important part of their embouchure. The only question has to do with exactly how they use it. Those of us who follow Jerome's teachings maximize the use of the tongue to take advantage of the strength and flexibility of that important muscle. Quite possibly, we place the tongue "wedge" further forward than what is observed in any other technique. This is not necessarily the easiest technique to master but it can result in amazing sound, focus, power, intonation, range, and efficiency. --Ken B.

  7. #7
    oj is offline
    Pianissimo User oj's Avatar
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    Sep 2005

    Re: How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

    I use my tongue in the same way as Nick D.

    When having trouble tonguing very low notes on tuba, I kind of stumbled on this idea. Then I found out about TCE, came in contact with Jerry and Bahb.

    In 2004, I even arranged a miniseminar with Jerry in Denmark. Have an article about that, here:

    Lessons with Jerome Callet

    Jerry is for sure a nice and special guy. But, as the sceptic I am, I soon questioned some of Jerry's claim.
    One example: He showed me some photos of a German player, Walter Holy and said that when Holy played on natural trumpet, he used the TCE type of tonguing.

    A few months after meeting Jerry, I was able to ask Holy (via a friend in Germany) if he used this type of tonguing. "No, and he had never used it". (He used the tongue against the back of his upper teeth).

    The sad thing about such info is that some of Jerry's "disciples" get mad when I question some of these claims on the Callet Forum on TH (eg. that Maurice Andre uses TCE, etc.). So, I have stopped posting there.

    About Holy (photo, etc.) see here:

    Walter Holy


    P.S. Before moving my tongue in the "TCE-direction", I had been using the tongueing described by Herbert Clarke (tongue tip resting behind lower teeth, etc.). So the move was not a big one

  8. #8
    Utimate User tedh1951's Avatar
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    Oct 2007
    The Wide Brown Land

    Re: How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

    Mine seems to be much the same as Nick Ds, but a little further back in the mouth.

    Harrelson Bravura
    Getzen Eterna Classic 900
    Getzen Eterna II 700S
    Boosey & Hawkes Regent MkII
    Weril EP4071 Pocket
    Boosey & Hawkes Eb Tenor Horn

  9. #9
    Pianissimo User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Re: How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

    I studied with Jerry 8-10 years back and his methods do work. My one problem with him is he is not always good at explaining things, he sometimes lapses into telling anecdotal stories about other players or students. I was able to decipher what he meant but it took awhile.
    Funny thing is that I figured out what he was working with me while travelling in Hawaii. I was obviously not able to bring my horn but did alot of experimenting and buzzing and it just clicked. Sort of like the think system from The Music Man.
    That said he's a really good guy and I wish him nothing but the best.

  10. #10
    Pianissimo User
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    Dec 2008
    Ridgecrest CA

    Re: How many of you use "tounge controlled embrochure" and such?

    Interesting Topic indeed.

    Let me view the video again and look into this some more.

    still trying to underestand the concept of double tongue, triple tongue etc...

    I maybe doing it already or not and don't know it.

    I'm a comeback player that needs to start at the very beginning...which the song tells me...a very good place to start.


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