Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 25 of 25
Trumpet Discussion Discuss I've hit a wall at C above the staff... in the General forums; Originally Posted by KJaeger I can't emphasize enough the post that rowuk made, particularly the part about pressure and playing ...
  1. #21
    New Friend mercedes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Re: I've hit a wall at C above the staff...

    Quote Originally Posted by KJaeger View Post
    I can't emphasize enough the post that rowuk made, particularly the part about pressure and playing relaxed. I had the same "wall" until I learned to play with a truly relaxed embouchure.

    Some exercises that can help:
    - Can you play with a true lip vibrato? This is not essential, but in order to play a nice pleasant lip vibrato you must be playing in a relaxed manner without excessive pressure.
    - Can you turn the lip vibrato into a lip trill? This is the next step. Try playing softly starting on the middle C in the staff, and try lip trills up to the next partial (e.g. C to E). Then work your way up chromatically through the fingerings. Each step, start with the vibrato and then expand to a trill. The Colin book is great for this as well.
    - Eventually when you can play the trills consistently to the next higher partial, try trilling to the 2nd partial up (i.e. C to G) and work up by half steps
    - If you can't play relaxed to get the vibrato, maybe try lip bends. Start on middle G, play fingering G-F#-G, then bend (without fingering) G-F#-G. Again, slowly work your way up. Listen and try to keep the tone quality consistent through the bend.
    - Pedals help with this as well, but I find one needs to be careful that one is doing them correctly to get the benefits.

    Take it slow, be patient, and play with a relaxed sound and a reasonable volume. If you can play soft controlled lip trills, arpeggios or scales you will find you will make steadier progress.

    Playing high takes balance between more air and stronger embouchure. If you just blow harder, your embouchure will not be sufficiently developed to handle it. That is when you end up using pressure to compensate, and the death spiral begins.
    I've been trying to play pp and without pressure like Rowuk is helping, but I will just have to be patient (NOT EASY!). This time around, I want to improve my technique and become an even better player than I was in school. After reading the posts on here, I'm finding out how much I wasn't 'taught' in school...

    So...will you clarify what you mean by lip trills? (I've been taking voice lessons for a few months and we do lip trills to warm rolling a Spanish ‘rrrr’ sound)

    As for vibrato, I wasn't taught how to do it with just my lips, but rather by slightly shaking my fingers to produce the vibrations. (In voice I have been learning how to breathe properly and have just begun to produce a bit of vibrato from my diaphragm…not my throat) So how do you produce vibrato without moving the trumpet with your fingers?

    I saw a few tutorials on YouTube regarding lip bends, and I think I’m doing those correctly.

    Thanks for your advice…

  2. #22
    New Friend mercedes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Re: I've hit a wall at C above the staff...

    Quote Originally Posted by rowuk View Post
    You have not hit any wall just because the note doesn't come out. The difference between playing high and not playing is very small and has more to do with playing smart than playing "different".

    If you want high chops, you have to earn them. High notes are played and not hit. The hit and run mentality is the real wall.

    Here is what you do tomorrow:

    Take 5 minutes and do a breathing check: Our breathing can be visualized as a circle, the left side is inhale and the right exhale. Notice that the circle is ROUND at the top and bottom. The transition from in to exhale should be the same. Take a BIG unhurried breath, keep that throat open and switch from in to exhale without a bump - remember the circle! 5 Minutes of easy in and exhale.

    Take your mouthpiece and play 5 minutes of middle register long tones PIANISSIMO - no tonguing. Breathe as above, but replace exhale with play - remember the circle! The next 5 minutes is the same with the mouthpiece and horn - middle register, NO TONGUE and PIANISSIMO.

    Now you need to do 5 minutes of easy slurs, no tongue to get the tone started and PIANISSIMO.

    Now we will test your smarts: play a slurred C major scale PIANISSIMO from low C to G on top of the staff. Do not apply pressure to your face as you go up. Just let the sound get thinner. If you have done everything that I said, you will be able to play a thin c, d or even an e. Don't worry, you haven't earned a bigger high note yet and we are in the process of learning to play smart.

    Do this for a week and you will notice a BIG difference. A physical approach before you have developed reasonable chops is just plain stupid. One squeezes off any chance to play relaxed. Pressure is used because it works up to a point. Range that plain stops at one note is a good sign that you are not playing smart. Be content with the knowledge that you are not alone.

    We do not need to practice loudly, we just need to breathe deeply in circles. Proper breath support and muscle/tongue/embouchure training can work wonders. One stupid animal practice session and it is OVER.

    I am not really getting on your case, but your post told me the whole story: hitting notes, competition with your "friends", trying to prove something and a wall that only exists in your playing style. The killer was bringing ladies into the argument. You need to flush all of that stuff down the toilet, or be content with what you have!

    As a rule, the ladies advance more quickly because testosterone does not screw their playing up!

    We do not need to be Arnie Schwarzenegger to hit double c.
    I've been playing pp, without pressure, like you suggested and it is helping. I am just so excited/happy to be playing again (and remembering what I used to sound like) that I was rather impatient to get back there and go beyond. In school endurance, range and power were emphasized during marching season and I have to admit, I loved being ‘heard’ amongst the crowd. Now however, after reading the posts on here, I'm finding out how much I wasn't exposed to in school... And I'm expanding my musical tastes.
    Thanks for your suggestions.

  3. #23
    New Friend scottlashbrook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    London UK

    Re: I've hit a wall at C above the staff...

    I have to partly agree with Al Inella, but I also appreciate that what Rowuk saying is correct and sensible advice. I have a strong double A all night long, and a double C when it's needed, which lets be honest is really not that often. It took me 20 years to get there and get it secure, and get paid for it. More air is absolutely wrong, faster air is what is required. The long tones, pedal tones and slur exercises are needed to build the strength in your chops the correct way, without a strong foundation your range will never improve, but........ some players will need a chop doc to assist in the quest for 'they holy grail' or should that be 'ridiculous obsession' find a good lead player that you respect and take some lessons.

    Taylor Chicago Custom II
    Yamaha 8335LA (heavily modified)
    Leblanc Symphonie II balanced, circa 1960's
    Taylor Phat Boy Flugel

  4. #24
    Forte User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Clarksburg, WV

    Re: I've hit a wall at C above the staff...

    Hi Mercedes, Here's what I know that works for me. First, I see a real coorelation between whistling and playing the range of the trumpet. The coorelation being the placement of the tongue. When I was in high school I played the MF solo parts in stage band and used alot of pressure. It sounded great and wowed the audience. The problem was that my lip suffered from all the pressure and my lower range(where about 95% of the trumpet is played) just sucked. I then began on working on using less pressure, and learning to control my air. A couple of real good articles were written by Vince DiMartino and Pops Clinton on this topic. However, you want it ready for the reunion, right? Well, there's a mouthpiece called an asymmetric that can let you scream till the cows come home. I bought one and was amazed how effortless it was. My problem with it was I couldn't figure out how to adapt the mouthpiece to the other lower registers(a weakness on my part, not the mouthpiece).
    An Assymetric mouthpiece could be the saturday night special that can shoot down the boys in the band. Now remember, this is what works for me. Trust but verify.
    As far as boys having better chops than girls? It's stereotyping. girls are known for playing flute, clarinet, and I think socially, they are headed in that direction. My daughter started tooting the trumpet at around 3 years old and now at the age of 5 can play a couple of scales and some songs. It will not be a happy day when some cheese eating band director says to me and my wife " We could really use your daughter on clarinet" Girls are every bit as good as boys and that kind of societal thinking will only be true if you believe it. Now go kick some boys butts!!!!

  5. #25
    Pianissimo User thebugleboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Deep South

    Re: I've hit a wall at C above the staff...

    Mercedes, the trill you speak of in your voice classes, I believe you are doing with your tongue. The lip trill mentioned here is, oversimplified, sort of a quick slur back and forth and back and forth within the same valve position. Very popular with the old jazz men I played with years ago. We used to use it a lot to hide tired embouchures too. lol
    old trumpetman
    Connstellation 38B
    Lots of junk
    Washburn guitars (with autographs)
    Wood sculptor and primitive flute maker
    '69 Falcon
    '71 IH 800B Scout
    '81 Camaro
    '86 VW conv.
    '96 Supercharged Riviera (never been beat...yet)

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. The Wall Street Journal Stands Alone
    By stchasking in forum TM Lounge
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-01-2007, 10:35 AM
  2. Rockwell painting found behind wall...
    By PhatmonB6 in forum TM Lounge
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-01-2006, 11:04 AM
  3. Salaries of ARTS leaders(conductors) in Wall st. journal
    By A.N.A. Mendez in forum Trumpet Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-13-2006, 01:04 AM
  4. China Surveying the Great Wall
    By Liad Bar-EL in forum TM Lounge
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-24-2006, 09:38 PM
  5. Flat Wall on Monette...
    By orchestra_trumpet_star in forum Mouthpieces / Mutes / Other
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-06-2005, 03:53 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26