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Trumpet Discussion Discuss Large bore vs. small bore question in the General forums; Originally Posted by rowuk Not if you are trying to get a job in a symphony orchestra! The NY Phil ...
  1. #11
    Forte User flugelgirl's Avatar
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    Re: Large bore vs. small bore question

    Quote Originally Posted by rowuk View Post
    Not if you are trying to get a job in a symphony orchestra! The NY Phil limited the horn choices to Bach and Yamaha. German orchestras want rotaries - that Benge does not make..........
    I've never quite understood that philosophy -if four jazzers each playing a different brand of horn can make a great section, than why won't that work for orchestral players? I believe it has a lot more to do with training and sound concept than the equipment. Equipment can make a difference, of course, but give me a 1c and a large bore Bach and I'm still gonna sound like myself - just a very tired version of myself!
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  2. #12
    Moderator Utimate User rowuk's Avatar
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    Re: Large bore vs. small bore question

    Quote Originally Posted by flugelgirl View Post
    I've never quite understood that philosophy -if four jazzers each playing a different brand of horn can make a great section, than why won't that work for orchestral players? I believe it has a lot more to do with training and sound concept than the equipment. Equipment can make a difference, of course, but give me a 1c and a large bore Bach and I'm still gonna sound like myself - just a very tired version of myself!
    I believe it is more brand blindness than sound concept. If I listen to the old symphony recordings with Ghitalla in Boston, there was no sound issue, really old NY recordings also sound fine. Most of the german orchestras also "tolerate" mixed brands.

    I am pretty sure that marketing tools "secure" these myths about blend. Yamaha does invest in their artists and I am sure that there are "most favored customers" at Bach too!
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  3. #13
    Forte User Al Innella's Avatar
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    Re: Large bore vs. small bore question

    Why do people assume that every student is going to or for that matter even wants to play with a major symphony orchestra ?

  4. #14
    Moderator Utimate User rowuk's Avatar
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    Re: Large bore vs. small bore question

    Nobody does. The point is only that a Benge, as fine a horn as it is/was, is not a universal solution.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Large bore vs. small bore question

    To this, Rowuk is right.
    "The Horn is just an Amplifier, The person makes the beautiful music"


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    Re: Large bore vs. small bore question

    "Nobody does. The point is only that a Benge, as fine a horn as it is/was, is not a universal solution"
    ------
    I don't know about universal solutions but the one thing the poster is sure of, he likes the horn and the horn likes him. I say we give them our Blessing.

    Speaking of solutions, Is Lambic beer a universal solution?

  7. #17
    Mezzo Forte User Darthsunshine's Avatar
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    Re: Large bore vs. small bore question

    Fortunately, at the minor league amateur level we're allowed to do as we please. Three ML Benges in our trumpet section
    Glen

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  8. #18
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    Re: Large bore vs. small bore question

    Quote Originally Posted by jdostie View Post
    I was listening to a Claude Gordon lecture...and he said... "could never fill up a large bore trumpet," . . . "you can't fill it up anyway, it's open at both ends."
    All anyone needs to do to convince themselves of this is to do the following:
    a. Remove the mouthpiece, take a deep breath, blow hard into the trumpet and time how long it takes to exhaust the lungs (4-8 seconds?).
    b. Insert the mouthpiece and repeat (with the lips on the outside of the mouthpiece). How long does it take to exhaust the lungs again? (maybe 6-10 seconds?)

    Obviously the throat of the mouthpiece is waaay smaller than the smallest bore trumpet ever made yet it hardly changes the rate of airflow through the trumpet. So, the actual bore of the instrument can hardly have any effect at all.

    Now, take a deep breath and blow a steady note such as G. Depending on your lung capacity, you may be able to blow 30 sec to maybe 2 minutes. So, the time to blow notes is 5-10 times as long as it takes to move air through the pipes. What is the difference? - The aperature of the lips and the impedance mismatch that occurs at the bell end. It is not the size the plumbing that does it.

    It is possible to put a trumpet mouthpiece into a trombone (I have done it) and play the same range and duration of notes as a trumpet. The larger bore and bell of the trombone only changes the overtones and timbre of the sound. (I haven't tried this with a Tuba or Sousaphone but I suspect the outcome would be similar).

    So, forget bore. Think music.
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