Trumpet Discussion Discuss MANNY!!! RESULTANT OVERTONES...REMEMBER THE POWER?? in the General forums; Go to the topic on the trumpet Discussion section.
"Theme for the Common Man"
You were there at the 1999 ...
MANNY!!! RESULTANT OVERTONES...REMEMBER THE POWER??
Go to the topic on the trumpet Discussion section.
"Theme for the Common Man"
You were there at the 1999 Monette Open House and clinic and took part in that group of Charly Schlueter's bunch of great trumpet players...when they played The Theme for the Common Man.
That day when you and the rest of his group "shook the lights and rattled the walls in Dave Monette..make shift shop auditorium.
After that...I gained a whole new understanding of the power of resultant overtones, and how they can effect changes, not only in just mere walls or seat backs, but equally how they can effect or enhance the mood or feelings and intensity of a live performance.
Nothing can match the power and anoiting that Live musical performance can effect the listeners as well as the musicians.
What a great week end....just to be in the presence of so many world class musicians, left many of us...either inspired, or hummm?
I almost felt like going home and digging a hole in the back yard to bury my beloved old Besson, and Callet horns. What I heard that weekend was so inspiring...but equally a very humbling experience n'allthat jaaaazzzz.
If any of you are near Portland....stop in to see Dave and gang. They are truly the Hosts with the Mosts. U will be changed....
What a wonderful time that was... it was like an ITG with the focus on Dave's work. I met some great folks and ate like a friggin' maniac.
Thanks for the memories, Don. I'll be in Portland for a day this August as well as Seattle for the balance of the week. Ichiro, Der Rosenkavelier, hiking, and a whole lot of fresh seafood.
Mezzo Piano User
I had the pleasure of hearing a similar demonstration of resultant tones with Manny at the 2004 ITG Conference in Denver.
Manny and Mike played several excepts (both on new Prana instruments) to demonstrate the concepts of section intonation and blending. Experiencing these qualities from top-flight players with vibrant ringing sounds on fantastic equipment from the front of the bell (only two rows back) was awe inspiring. They played a section from the 2nd movement of Beethoven Symphony No. 5 and the opening Promenade from Pictures at an Exhibition.
The resultants that were ringing in the room were so powerful that they were literally pushing on everyone’s ears. From the back of the room Dave said, “Manny, I see a lot of people pulling on their ears. Could you give us a quick description of what were are all experiencing?” With time running out (we were down to the last 2-3 minutes, Manny quickly said that when two different pitches are played at the same time, the difference between the frequencies of the two notes generates a much lower “resultant tone”. For example, if two notes are played, one with a frequency of 100 and the other with a frequency of 50, the resultant is 50. Or another example with 100 and 75 would generate a resultant tone with a frequency of 25. He then asked Mike to play a C, and he would play an E to demonstrate. Mike played a low C instead of a third space C, so Manny opted to just play the 1st line E. Dave said, “Play that up an octave and we’ll be able to hear it 10 times better”. Sure enough, the pedal C resultant was pushing on our ears again!
For the end of the class we were all treated to the Final Hymn from Stravinsky’s Firebird (both the slow and fast themes). Again, the resultants were buzzing very loud on every note. Truly amazing! This class was a true highlight of the conference for me. I had a chance to introduce myself to Manny afterwards, he literally was standing right in front of me and I just reached out my hand to say hello. What a neat person!
You wrote this in the other post on this topic in the General Trumpet Discussion section:
I can totally see this happening. I don’t think that most players understand just how powerful this concept is. If they did, more people would cultivate this quality in their sounds.
...actually rattled the banks of lights when the trumpet sounds began to make the framework of the lights vibrate with the POWA' OF THE RESULTANT TONES!!! I saw more than just a few folks duck for cover...when the clips started to fall to the floor.
So this begs the question: how does one develop this in singular practice? Obviously, you cannot generate resultant tones by yourself; but how do you develop the skill to nail pitches so centered that in a section setting you produce them without having to adjust (the ideal setting...having a section that produces them consistently). Does section blend have an impact as well? For example, if you are playing a 1st inversion triad with root in the lead, should the lowest voice being strongest impact this?
"Roses have thorns; shining waters mud. Clouds and eclipses stain the moon and the sun; and history reeks of the wrongs we have done. After today, after today, consider me gone."- Sting
Simply, Glenn, it's a question of having ears that tell you you're in tune or very close to it. When one has a good sense of self intonation the group intonation follows naturally.
Just another thought...Every individual instrument that is manufactured, has it very own "pitch center" on every valve combination.
Unfortunate that many brand of instruments, limited by its construction and design, natually will not play in pitch in every note combination.
If we are to stay in tune or pitch with other players....it is of PRIME importance that we carefully LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN to each other and take the care to BLEND by either lippin' up or down....utilizing slide pulls and even on some brands of instruments (ala' my long lost old beloved Besson Soveriegn Cornet) we might have to use false fingerings, just to accomplish this task---just to stay in tune with each other.
I have found it amazing that so many wonderful soloists sometimes are the most lacking, when it comes to BLENDING. When they get into musical situations with other players, they often forget to listen and blend together. Not only it is so equally important to blend and listen to each other...it is even more important to learn to blend or meld that power together to form that special coloring of sound that is required.
Some brands very greatly from indiviual instrument from another of the same model. Natually we can texurize the voicing by utilizing various mouthpieces, etc.
However, all this aside...I have heard seasoned players, MIKE VAX, for example gave us a wonderful rendition of sound colorization during one of his performances last year.
He started out the performance on one song. It was a velvety-warm-dense beginning...(pure lush warm fat sound) and then on the next passage...with that same Signature model trumpet and mouthpiece, played the ending of that song with such an amazingly BRIGHT-BRASSY projective sounding trumpet voice.
HOW-DE-DO-DAT??? I asked Marvin Stamm when he was here in the NW and he grinned and said...
Hey, you remember Stan Kenton don't you? "CONTRASTS", and listening to each other.
This is off the subject...however for a good illustration of resultant tones.
Simply go to the piano, put the loud petal down, take your trumpet and blow a good stacatto sort fff note. Stop: LISTEN, as the piano responds in sound vibration with that same note. Sorry for the dumb illustration, this is old basic science stuff. But so many horrifical things can happen if we don't live by these basic rules, whether it be in music or life.
My long time friend and fellow musican is the principle acoustical Engineer for the Boeing Company. RAYMOND.C.KLEIN at BOEING(A died in the wool Bach-a-holic) is really in touch with sound.
For example on the old Boeing 757 during flight tests...the metal skins of the airplane, would suddenly began vibrating, due to the sound pitch of the engines during take offs and in some flight modes...the airplane's outter skin would begin to vibrate in tune when the engines would give off this high pitch whine.
Talk about annoying to the passengers? However the big concern was outter skin fatique from the vibration would cause damage at the attach points.
Ray Klein was the hero of the day, year when he made the corrections to the metal bracing at the proper attach points...which changed the nodel pitch points of the alumn. skins, which STOPPED COLD , those damaging resultant overtones, that the engines had beenproduing those distructive and annoying vibration noise sounds.
Sorry for the drivel...I am NO SOUND ENGINEER, however Ray being both a sound genius and a really great trumpet player...really OPENED MY EYES AND EARS, to the power and science of sound. But again, that same year, at the Monette Open house in Portland, CHARLY SCHLEUTER, really put the illustration in sharp focus, with that playing of THE THEME FOR THE COMMON MAN.
DANG! The man can actually post in ENGLISH! Way to go, Don! Guess the effect of the fumes must be wearing off as retirement progresses.
Edit: Don, I hasten to clarify that I totally enjoy your posts! This one was "tongue-in-cheek"!
This discussion got me to thinking about section players in orchestras.
The high level of proficiency necessary for section players to effectively shadow (if you will) the great principal players.
Sorry for the hijack.
Uhhh, betta yet-----if the principal players....
Originally Posted by 40cal
just happen to be trumpet-heads
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