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Trumpet Discussion Discuss MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch in the General forums; Can anyone please demystify this thing for me before I go and do it myself :) How does the Bb ...
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    MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

    Can anyone please demystify this thing for me before I go and do it myself :)
    How does the Bb trumpet affect the trumpet MP pitch when the MP is connected to trumpet? For example I want to play a centered ‘G’ in stuff which is a concert F. What concert note should I buzz on the trumpet MP alone so that when connecting the trumpet to the MP while buzzing I get a nice centered concert F?
    In other words, is there a transposition between the MP pitch buzzed alone and a resulting pitch on the trumpet connected to the MP?

    Edit: I want to clarify that I asked this question on purpose. I think it makes sense to practice MP buzz with understanding what pitch I'm targeting. Then I connect the trumpet and apply the fingerings I have in my mind when buzzing on the MP and get the pitch on trumpet at least very close to what it's meant to be.
    Last edited by DiaxII; 04-14-2010 at 06:11 AM.

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    Re: MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

    Nope! It just amplifies it. Simple as that.

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    Re: MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

    I wouldn't simplify it that much. When you add the trumpet the resistance change as well. The pitch shouldn't change though. I wait for some more scientific statements by our members who happens to be engineers as well.

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    Re: MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

    In the Oberlin School of Music, Mr. Poper teaches that the lips buzz roughly an octave below the pitch of the mouthpiece (pre-amplifier) due to the relaxed nature of the lips, but once the pitch has been established on the mpc, the horn is an amplifier.
    You can check it out for yourself in Roy Poper's Guide to the Brasswind Methods of James Stamp. He has a bunch of stuff about this.
    Hope it helps!

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    Re: MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbandbears View Post
    In the Oberlin School of Music, Mr. Poper teaches that the lips buzz roughly an octave below the pitch of the mouthpiece (pre-amplifier) due to the relaxed nature of the lips, but once the pitch has been established on the mpc, the horn is an amplifier.
    You can check it out for yourself in Roy Poper's Guide to the Brasswind Methods of James Stamp. He has a bunch of stuff about this.
    Hope it helps!
    bigbandbears, congratulations on your first post! Thank you, it was informative.

    DiaxII, I don't know the acoustics but why don't you try this in reverse? Make sure your mouthpiece is pretty loose in the leadpipe, then play whatever pitch, nice and centered, and as tenderly as possible remove the horn and find out where your lips/mouthpiece are at. Use a tuner if necessary.
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    Re: MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Green View Post
    bigbandbears, congratulations on your first post! Thank you, it was informative.

    DiaxII, I don't know the acoustics but why don't you try this in reverse? Make sure your mouthpiece is pretty loose in the leadpipe, then play whatever pitch, nice and centered, and as tenderly as possible remove the horn and find out where your lips/mouthpiece are at. Use a tuner if necessary.
    I don't know, I tried to measure the MP buzz and couldn't with my chromatic tuner. It doesn't sense the MP buzz.

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    Mezzo Forte User kcmt01's Avatar
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    Re: MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

    The pitch should be the same. As a matter of fact, this is a pretty good ear training exercise.
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    Re: MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

    THe OP stated a concert pitch or key of F as is one flat, a B , thereby a Bb trumpet plays as if it were in the key of G with one sharp, that sharp being an F. Otherwise, the Bb trumpeter plays two semi-tones (half steps) higher than the concert key player (piano).

    I'm assuming the OP had made a transposition question! If s/he wanted to sound a G note in unison with a piano, s/he would play the A, vis G# (Ab) being a half step, and the A another half step (semi-tones).

    With the mouthpiece alone there is NO transposition, one is always in concert key, thus a G is a G sound as if the piano G key were struck.

    I've yet to find a chromatic tuner as will register mouthpiece buzzing, but it does reveal on an oscilloscope. The fallacy of a chromatic tuner for a Bb trumpeter is that its output is also in concert key.
    Last edited by Ed Lee; 04-15-2010 at 01:45 PM.

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    Re: MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

    Okay, so I'll give it one more try. First, play an F on the piano. Now play that note, which is a trumpet G, on the mouthpiece. While holding that note, insert the mouthpiece into the horn (no valves down). You should be playing a G. Strike the F key on the piano. It should be in tune. Does that come close to answering your question?

    Assuming, of course, that your horn was in tune in the first place.
    Last edited by kcmt01; 04-15-2010 at 02:39 PM. Reason: clarity
    1952 Holton Revelation 48 w/ Stork Studio Master VM, Wick 4
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    Early 1900s Jaubert Eb peckhorn, cheap Lyle mp
    Early '60s Getzen Super Deluxe Tone Balanced Copra Temp
    Olds Ambassador cornet in pieces.
    Kudu Shofar.

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    Re: MP buzz pitch vs trumpet pitch

    Quote Originally Posted by kcmt01 View Post
    Okay, so I'll give it one more try. First, play an F on the piano. Now play that note, which is a trumpet G, on the mouthpiece. While holding that note, insert the mouthpiece into the horn (no valves down). You should be playing a G. Strike the F key on the piano. It should be in tune. Does that come close to answering your question?

    Assuming, of course, that your horn was in tune in the first place.
    What is stated is correct! The F piano becomes the G on Bb trumpet, assuming BOTH are in tune. IME it is rare to find a piano that is perfectly in tune. Likewise, just about any other instrument ... including mine. Starting with an AC cooled trumpet that I pre-tune, about ten minutes into playing I need to tune it again, and about every ten mnutes again where it will be pretty close for about 40 minutes and then edge toward being flat ... or else I begin not to slot well from becoming tired. Durn, why not develop a automatic thermo controlled tuner for our trumpets.
    I ponder my electronic tuner on this issue also. My oscilloscope print-out doesn't lie!

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