Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 15 of 15
Trumpet Discussion Discuss Oh no! Don't talk about intonation! in the General forums; Originally Posted by trumpetsplus squeezing out his note tighter and tighter; the pitch is going up and up; the trumpet ...
  1. #11
    Mezzo Forte User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005

    Re: Oh no! Don't talk about intonation!

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpetsplus View Post
    squeezing out his note tighter and tighter; the pitch is going up and up; the trumpet is getting longer and longer; eventually it will be so long that the player will be miss-pitching up to the next harmonic.
    This isn't just a problem for high school kids, I think lots of trumpet players do this. I know I used to! I remember being in an orchestra rehearsal in college and feeling out of tune and pulling out. Still out of tune, out some more, etc. Pretty soon my slide is WAY out and so's my pitch. Finally in frustration I pushed it way in and just like that I was fine. A good lesson to learn.

    I also think that some horns have a sort of "sweet spot" for the tuning slide where the horn is the most resonant and in tune with itself. It can be a problem when that sweet spot doesn't agree with the ensemble or section. It's just a guess based on my own experience, but I think the mouthpiece can effect the actual pitch that comes out when the horn is in that sweet spot. But I don't really know, the physics behind all of that is way over my head.

  2. #12
    New Friend
    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Re: Oh no! Don't talk about intonation!

    When I started outI didn't know anything about pitch, tuning and still not so strong on it, but what has helped me enormously is this software. An updated version of gglassmeyer's school aptitude test.
    Ear Training Software - EarMaster for Windows and Mac

    Anybody else using it?
    Yamaha Xeno

  3. #13
    Forte User flugelgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Norfolk, VA

    Re: Oh no! Don't talk about intonation!

    I had a couple of days at work this week that really affected my playing in a bad way. There was an issue with one of our people that just made me so angry that I was too tense to get a good sound. It took me a couple of days of just playing the stuff that makes me smile before I could really get back to any serious practice - I spent an hour or two just playing some abersolds after work, and played till I was smiling again before I went home. That extra tension really hurt my sound, though - it felt like I couldn't let my body relax enough to make anything resonate the way it should. I've noticed the same type of effect when my sinuses are really stuffed up - you get used to the way it feels when pitches resonate in your head as you play, and it's not the same when they don't.
    Adams A1, satin gold lacquer, 0.55 (and it's twin in clear lacquer)
    Adams F2, gold brass bell 0.55
    Yamaha 8335LA (Navy horn)
    Adams ACB Prologue
    Conn 112B
    NY Bach Mercury
    50's Calicchio
    Marcienkewicz Rembrandt flugel (for sale! Contact Trent Austin for details)
    Schilke P5-4
    French Besson Classic C
    Yamaha 761 Eb/D
    Weril Regium Eb/D (for sale soon)
    vintage Benge pocket trumpet
    Austin Custom Brass mouthpieces

    More news to come!

  4. #14
    Fortissimo User SteveRicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009

    Re: Oh no! Don't talk about intonation!

    All very valid comments. On the other hand, I have been playing for 45 years and have always had to tune to the rest with my tuning slide about an inch out. For real.

    Someone commented on the "sweet spot" of horns. I agree. When I am not playing along with others, I push the slide in to about 1/4 to 1/8 inch of an inch and can literally "feel" as well as hear better resonation in the horn. True for all my horns.
    Olds Supers, LA (1953), Ful. (1962)
    Olds Recording, LA (1952)
    Olds Studio, LA (1953)
    Olds Special, Ful. (1964)
    Olds Ambassador, LA (1954)
    Olds Ambassador, Ful. (1973)
    Bach Strads 37-(1967, 1970, 1974, 1982)
    Bach Strad 72 MLV (1973), 72* (1982)
    Kanstul 1500 (2002), 1502 (2008), 1503 (2002)
    Kanstul 1537 (2007)
    Kanstul Chicago (2000)
    Kanstul 1510 C
    King Liberty (1929,1929)
    King Liberty 2 (1938, 1944)
    King Liberty 2b (1950)
    J.H. Darby 45 USA
    Holton (Revelation) 1924
    Kanstul 1525 Flugelhorn

  5. #15
    Mezzo Forte User kcmt01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Polson, MT

    Re: Oh no! Don't talk about intonation!

    Quote Originally Posted by trumpetsplus View Post
    I have lurked for a while; I have posted to some threads when I thought I could be of help; now I will start this thread (and maybe duck for cover?).

    I have just posted this to my blogs and would like comments from members:

    Is it the instrument or the player that is out of tune?

    Many of us have heard the legend of the frustrated school band director talking to the brass players. He has just spent the last 30 minutes trying to get the band in tune so that it can sound sweet for the school concert that night. With his eyes glued on the magic tuning machine in his hand he is saying "sharp – pull out…flat – push in…no, you’re still sharp – pull out". And so it continues.

    The kid who is being singled out gets more and more nervous. And, guess what? When you get nervous or feel under attack, the first thing that goes is your breathing. So the poor kid is squeezing out his note tighter and tighter; the pitch is going up and up; the trumpet is getting longer and longer; eventually it will be so long that the player will be miss-pitching up to the next harmonic.

    In exasperation the band director says:
    "The instruments are made in tune at the factory; just pull your tuning slides out a quarter of an inch!"

    We all laugh at this story, but maybe it has some validity. We must first of all settle the player so that they can blow freely.

    In these situations I prefer to say tight instead of sharp. The player is tight which makes the notes sharp. We must address the problem (tense player) not the result (sharp pitch).

    Assuming the instrument is well made, and an experienced player is able to play it in tune with the main slide out about half an inch, have that player demonstrate to the student where “in tune is”, and have the student blow (in unison with that player) long, easy notes with the slide in that setting. This can demonstrate to them what it is like to play in tune. They will also discover that their playing requires much less effort.

    There is always the tendency to believe that the correct pitch in any ensemble is the highest pitch that is sounding at the time. The player who is flat is the one who sticks out; the great French Horn virtuoso, Barry Tuckwell, is reputed to have said "I’d rather be a little sharp than out of tune".

    What do you think?
    You're right on the money as far as nervousness and pitch are concerned. When the player is off the hook and relaxes, he'll be way too flat. There are so many variables to being in tune, mostly the temperature of the horn and the state of mind of the player. When I play a gig, I use 4 or 5 different horns, which means they are all cold when I pick them up. So I'm always fiddling with the tuning slide. What drives me nuts is when the piano is out of tune. Nothing you can do about it.
    1952 Holton Revelation 48 w/ Stork Studio Master VM, Wick 4
    1975 Bach Stradivarius 182 "flugelhorn", Bach 7fl
    1930 Holton Llewellyn, Heim 1
    1990 Bach Stradivarius 180 with 37 bell, 7 leadpipe, Wick 4
    Early 1900s Jaubert Eb peckhorn, cheap Lyle mp
    Early '60s Getzen Super Deluxe Tone Balanced Copra Temp
    Olds Ambassador cornet in pieces.
    Kudu Shofar.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Intonation
    By Derek Reaban in forum Jazz / Commercial
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 04-23-2007, 11:45 AM
  2. Intonation
    By MahlerBrass in forum Trumpet Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-17-2006, 03:54 PM
  3. I have NOTHING to talk about!
    By Heavens2kadonka in forum TM Lounge
    Replies: 79
    Last Post: 02-07-2005, 11:44 PM
  4. WT intonation
    By sa doc in forum Horns
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-04-2004, 09:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26