amazingmorris

I have read some reviews which say that some student trumpets become overly "tight" or "stuffy" in the upper register, even when merely playing a little above the staff.
Why are they like that?
Are there any student trumpets which are more open in the upper register?
I want to play up to High F (one octave above top-line F) on a regular basis and have a rather open feel / sound for ballads.
I am thinking in terms of the following 4 trumpets, all of which have approximately the same bore size:
Bach TR300
Yamaha 2320
King 601
Holton 601

(Please don't tell me to get a more expensive trumpet than that, because I am disabled and cannot afford anything more than a $200 used trumpet, and even that will be a challenge to afford.)

I know that the sound and feel are not strictly bound by the bore size, because 30 years ago I tried a Holton and a Schilke both having a .468 bore size and they felt / sounded quite different.

Is the stuffiness in high notes perhaps related to some trumpets having an inherent resonant frequency that is not in synch with those high notes, due to type of metal used or thickness of metal used?

(The best trumpet I ever tried was the Holton ST302 of 35 years ago, if anybody wants to get me one for Christmas. That trumpet was open yet it also sang with a beautiful tone.)

BTW, to cram everything into one post, anyone know anything about the Holton T606R which *allegedly* has a .470 bore even though the model number would lead me to believe that it is a student trumpet?
see near the bottom of this Web page:
eBay: TRUMPET: HOLTON - RESTORED-GORGEOUS (item 320084854816 end time Mar-01-07 19:00:00 PST)

- morris, amateur playing again after 30 year hiatus

amazingmorris

"is "open" in high student trumpet thatnotes?"

???

I did a copy / paste using a Bill Gates' designed computer.

But it took the first third of the sentence and stuck it in the middle.

It was *supposed* to say:
"student trumpet that is open in high notes?"

- morris

rowuk

Morris,
welcome to TM.
High register is NOT dependent on what trumpet you use. Naturally, there are instruments that make life easier in the stratosphere, but they do cost more money. The freedom is NOT based on bore size and at $200, you do not have a big choice anyway.
The stuffiness that you mention has a lot to do with the market that these instruments were designed for. A student instrument has to offer good tone, be in tune, be durable and easy to maintain. The valves have to work well even when covered with peanut butter. All of this when being played by beginners without proper breath support or any musical concept. Those technical trade offs all require a sacrifice somewhere. It is impossible to define which tradeoffs the manufacturers choose as in this price segment, the piece to piece consistency is not 100% either.
I have never played any student instrument where a high F, G or even double C was not readily available - even although it didn't just pop out by itself (it doesn't on a pro horn either). An alternative for you may be a second hand non student instrument in reasonable shape! It is amazing how the price asked goes down based on "cosmetics" and not playability!
All this having been said, your high range is based on YOUR chops, willpower, breathing and approach to the horn. No reasonable hunk of brass screwed to your face can slow you down if the rest is OK.
Make sure that before you buy any of those (or any other) instruments, that you and somebody else with high chops plays it and determines its suitability. NEVER buy a mouthpiece or trumpet alone! Try and demo it in the type of rooms you will be performing in. The sound and feel change dramatically based on surrounding acoustics (another difference between a student and pro horn). The effort applied before the purchase is the BEST investment that you can make!
Any of the models that you suggest would be fine - if you pick a good one. You could also add Jupiter to the shortlist of reputable manufacturers of inexpensive instruments!

__________________
Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Eclipsehornplayer

I agree with Rowuk,

Buy what you can afford and make it work for you. The upper register is a product or your embouchure, mouthpiece, and air support. I guarentee you that I could go lay down 10,000.00 on a trumpet and I'd still not be able to play higher the D over high C!

Good luck!
John

__________________
Eclipse MHY Bb Trumpet with interchangable leadpipes
Bach 229 25A C Trumpet
Getzen Capri Bb Cornet
GR & Monette mouthpieces

Manny Laureano

Morris,

When all else fails, try reading the post. Yes, the title was unclear and you made your point but his post was quite clear.

Rowuk, thanks for being helpful in your usual lucid way.

ML

Dave

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bilboinsa

Yeah, me too! If you find a horn, ANY horn, that will "give" you this, let me know. I would pay that $10,000 for it...

Seriously, I think the horns that you listed would all be fine if sufficient practice was put into the goal. But don't dismiss older horns. I sit next to a much better player than me in one of my bands. I had him try out an old horn that I was considering buying. He sounded GREAT on it. The horn was an old Conn, and I only paid $300 for it. One of the best deals I ever made.

Good luck to you. :)

__________________
Doug Walsdorf

Schilke B2
Kanstul 1525
1927 Conn 22B New York Symphony

"In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbit-hole, and that means comfort."

amazingmorris

[quote=bilboinsa;296855]

Yeah, me too! If you find a horn, ANY horn, that will "give" you this, let me know. I would pay that $10,000 for it...

---------

I'm *already* playing the F's above High C because I corrected old embouchure problems and then I worked, worked, worked (until I felt the burn in my embouchure every day; no pain no gain). So I am *not* looking for a trumpet that will give me an instant upper register that i haven't earned.
To open the sound I am already getting a slightly deeper cup to eliminate the too-thin sound of my lips just barely clearing the inside of the cup (equivalent of switching from a Bach 3E mouthpiece to a Bach 3D). That still gives support in upper register but with a prettier sound. (I had thought about having the throat and backbore of a Bach 3E opened up, instead, but can't afford it.)
Because I have read so many trumpet players posting on the Internet that some trumpets are "stuffy" (such as often said about the Bach) and so many people saying that some trumpets have a different feel when they are played above High C (again, often said about the Bach), I wanted to know what you all thought about the 4 student models I mentioned.
I am presently using an ancient falling-apart Getzen 300 which gives an OK sound in the upper register, but I wondered if any of the other trumpets might give a brighter and more resonant tone with less resistance.
I'm not one of those perfectionists who insists on a special shape of tuning slide with reverse lead pipe, because (1.) I can't afford it and (2.) an amateur like myself wouldn't be able to feel the difference anyway. But a lighter-weight trumpet might give a brighter sound.
And "stuffiness" and "brightness" do vary from brand to brand and from model to model.
What I am saying and asking about is said by professional trumpeters all the time about professional trumpets. I was just wondering if there was a similar choice amongst student trumpets. For example, I have read trumpeters who have tried them claiming that the student Yamaha is more open than the student Bach.

- morris

amazingmorris

===========

Perhaps I didn't ask my original question clearly?

While blindfolded any first-chair high school trumpet player could both feel and hear the difference between a Bach Strad and a Holton SDT302 even though both are professional trumpets.
The Holton blows more freely and has a brighter sound.

I was hoping for recommendations for possible similar differences among student trumpets.
If none of them are "open", at least recommendations on which trumpets to avoid because they are more "stuffy" than the rest.

Why are all the people who are responding to my question assuming that I am some moron who thinks that a change of trumpet will instantly add an octave to my range?
I was asking for a more open feel and tone in the range I already have. I have already made the necessary adjustmemnts in embouchure and in mouthpiece. The better trumpet is the final piece.

- morris

Dave

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