The vermillion is a completely arbitrary feature that is different on different players. One player can place with the same ratio of upper to lower lip as another and one can have all the rim on the red while the other is placed above the red. There is no reason to even be considering the red of the lip.It is interesting that we now are at "low placement" not "in the red" anymore. I made no statement on low placement. As a matter of fact, I only mentioned red and that with a good diet of stuff to play, that we fixed the deficient aperatures shown in every red embouchure that I have ever dealt with.
On the other hand, your argument against a placement on the red seems to be based on the idea that you don't want to hinder the vibrating surface of the upper lip. Since the vermillion is arbitrary, you're really just talking about placing the mouthpiece low enough so that the rim contact somehow changes the "geometry" of how you think embouchures are supposed to function. This is why I'm talking low placement, not just on the red. But if you look at those videos I posted above, you'll see some fine brass playing with placements on the red of the lips too.
This has nothing to do with my points. Of course the lips open and close. This is part of the vibration cycle.As far as lips vibrating instead of opening and closing like a switch, there he has more to learn and study. This is a myth that also will not go away. The lip switch concept with the standing wave is VERY basic brass science. I am surprised that he is not aware of that. The two acoustic ends of the standing wave are very essential to the efficiency of the player/hardware combination.
I never said integration wasn't important or helpful. I said that talking about fixing problems with integration doesn't directly address the specific embouchure issues we're discussing.The red herring comment is also interesting. I have no statistics on how much time and money has been wasted on embouchure, but have NEVER met a brass player that did not benefit from better integration.
Interesting links, some good info in there. I didn't notice a single mention of mouthpiece placement in any of them (although the slide show you linked to has what looks like a low placement player buzzing into a visualizer). What point are you trying to make by posting them?Here are the links from people that I feel have the necessary background and research to explain what is really going on. I was involved in several of the studies:
True, and irrelevant to the topic of mouthpiece placement.There is a lot more available. The main point is that the desired behaviour of the embouchure (sustainability of the standing wave at the desired frequencies at the required volume and with acceptable tone quality) is dependent on the integration of breathing, the fine motor activity of the face, tongue behaviour and the flexibility of the lip in response to these factors.
This doesn't appear to be supported in any of your links, but I didn't take the time to reread them all very closely. Please quote if you have a source.The actual lip tissue has much less to do with this than the balance of the previously mentioned parameters.
And it's equally easy to get hung up on breathing or playing long tones and miss something else that's important. This is again the false dichotomy that I was warning against earlier. Any time you start discussing embouchure, someone gets hung up on how integration or breathing or something else is the key. If you want to make a case against my points, don't do it by creating a straw man and arguing against something I never said.It is very easy to get hung up on embouchure and miss the boat entirely.
Tell this to the musicians that I posted above playing in the red. Frankly, I personally play better in the red and feel handicapped if I move my placement higher. You're partially correct, this is true for most players. Not all.Playing in the red in my experience creates a handicap, that perhaps can partially be compensated for.
Simply stating something confidently doesn't make it true, although I might generally agree. What I'm warning against is that if this how you always teach, you only have one tool available to you and you're also only giving your students one tool to use on their own later. Intentional omission because you don't feel it's necessary in "most" cases is the same point I'm arguing about with teaching students to avoid placing in the red entirely - it's not true for all cases.There is no need to artificially change most embouchures if the proper daily routine is diligently followed.