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Trumpet Discussion Discuss Please take a look... in the General forums; the simple minded souls will never be satisfied with the answer to the second of these questions. They always want ...
  1. #1
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    Please take a look...

    the simple minded souls will never be satisfied with the answer to the second of these questions. They always want music to have a meaning, and the more concrete it is the better they like it. "

    What to listen for in Music
    Copland page 9
    This quote came to me one day, here are my tought about it, feel free to post yours... or comments:

    If i fully understand this quote ( I say this cause english isn't my primary language, french is), It is saying that simple mind people will always want to get something concrete about music right?

    What I think about this:

    This could really be debated alot; weither music is suppose to be meaning something or just sound beautiful. Many people have difficulties to express what they feel with word, but they will be able to describe a new car easily with those same word. You can tell someone what did the great Canyon look like ( notice that I never seens the great canyon, just an example) but you will have extreme difficulties to tell him what did you feel when you first saw it. Words are good to describe the concrete thing, but music is here to describe what can't be describe. If you were affraid and you want to tell your fear to someone, you can say: I'm was really scary and that is almost what you could do. But with music, you could describe the progress of your fear, how did it start, how thing happen. Of course, the person with whom you are talking won't imagine the same thing ( ex: a car running at you), but he will feel what you felt.

    Now on, it just depends on your point of view of what is the definitions of something concrete is. If it is: Something concrete is something that can be touched, seen and that you can easily talk about, then, there isn't anything concrete to get in music because with that definition, feeling aren't concrete.

    If you consider concrete anything that exist, then feelings exist and music is the way to share them. When I said to imagine an old forest, it is more to imagine what you feel in that forest. For our national anthem ( O Canada for me) I ask my musician to imagine that they receive a decoration or anything that makes them proud. You could describe the room of where they receive this decoration, but it is useless, just imagine that you receive it and you'll became proud and pride will rise threw your sound. I think that whne you listen to any song or piece, what everybody is looking for is those feelings. Even is simple mind people may not actually realize what they are looking for, they are looking for something.

    Music is the most ancient language on earth. Rythme was there before words, and music is still there. Most people can hear music and listen to those feelings, many people can read music and play it so they can express their own interpretation of the composer's feelings and even add his wn feeling to the piece. Finnaly only a few can write music and sculpt their feeling in music for the years to come... Singing words have become more and more popular, because it is really easier to say something than to music play it, but that is really sad because music will always do a better job than word when it is about telling to someone your feeling. Just look at : What a wonderful word of Louis Armstrong. Would these word get all their meaning if the music wasn't behind? That is why most people wouldn't care about hearing a poem read by someone but they will enjoy it with some music. Music does the job that words can't do! And everyone will always continue to look and seek in music to find those feeling hidden in there.
    -= 709 royal canadian air cadet squadron brass instructor =-

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    i have some thoughts on this,

    i will add them later when i get a home tonight.

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    Good try Welk!!!

    Keep after it. Keep working on it and don't let it go. You will find that the meaning or understanding that you may have presently may change over time through the experiences of life that only you may encounter.

    Good post and thanks,

    Liad Bar-EL

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    Just an add-on:

    When I was in secondairy 4 (I think this is like grade 9 ( if 11 in total) or 10 (if 12 in total)), we played a piece called "Memoriam". First of all we played it a couple of time and then, the teacher told us why this single piece exist: There has been a fire somewhere (can't remember where, too lazy to search for the sheet and see) and some fireman was fighting the fire and after a while there were surrounded by fire and the finnaly died there. I swear you the next time we played it, we could really easily see those thing happen there was the fire starting, progressing, the arrival pof the fireman, the fight, the victory of fire and finnaly, the calm... there soul leaving there body, no more touched by fire and the fire starting to end. during this last part you could really feel that strange feeling everybody have about death....

    That is just a shared experience... but it is to add about what I wrote a little higher!
    -= 709 royal canadian air cadet squadron brass instructor =-

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    I feel that one must be careful not to take the attitude ( as Copland does) of saying that simple ways of thinking about music have no value just as one should try to expand their thoughts to be bigger in scope than just music must equal an exact meaning.

    In the context of what Welk wrote and trying to put an extract scenario to the music thought, there is a danger of limiting the emotional response we feel based on life experiences. When one is young those experience are stark in their differences, while once one is older more shades and variations become evident. And there is no way we can know exactly what that emotion meant to the composer that wrote it.

    As we grow older the “images” become more focus and specify over time. I feel that the use of mental images can work but should be done only if one is still hearing the sound in their head. Emotion should not substitute for hearing the exact tonal color or sound that is desired. At best these two ideas can be used in conjunction with each other.

    I think this is good discussion and relates directly to us cultivating musical thoughts and thinking processes so they may be applied to the trumpet. This process is a slow one that changes much over time. Even though I see it as over simplistic I do see merits to thinking in terms of events as you suggest Welk, but overall I see much better results from just hearing how it should sound and trying to reproduce that sound.

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