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Trumpet Discussion Discuss Range Developement in the General forums; Originally Posted by gbdeamer I..........Just because you may or may not have had success with an asymmetric mouthpiece it doesn't ...
  1. #31
    Utimate User kingtrumpet's Avatar
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    Sep 2009
    New York State USA

    Re: Range Developement

    Quote Originally Posted by gbdeamer View Post
    I..........Just because you may or may not have had success with an asymmetric mouthpiece it doesn't mean that "most players" can or can not use them.

    Look up some of Nick Drozdoff's videos when he was playing asymmetric pieces. Sounds pretty good. I play next to a guy who uses on in a wind symphony and a guy who used one in a big band. Worked for them too.

    There are no "bad" mouthpieces. Some (like asymmetric, Parduba, Rudy muck, etc.) take more getting used to because of their unique designs, but they're just tools. It's how people approach using them and their expectations of miraculous results that need to be tempered.
    Yes - I agree -- Nick Drozdoff and many other players can take just about any mouthpiece and play well, in Nick's case he can also play all of the brass instruments very well. So the mouthpiece is a tool, and the player is the determining factor in how well the tool (mpc) is perceived. So if you watch "some" of Nick's vids - you might think that the Parduba, or the Asymmetric, or the Schilke 14A4a is the BEST MPC. Or if you watch ALL of his videos, then you might conlude that ----- Everyone, can play any mpc, and any brass instrument, and make it sound good!!!!!!!!

  2. #32
    Utimate User kingtrumpet's Avatar
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    Sep 2009
    New York State USA

    Re: Range Developement

    Quote Originally Posted by Local 357 View Post
    ..........I would bet good money that very few readers of this forum even have a solid High C to my satisfaction. Think this thought over for a minute.

    Very very few trumpet players have a solid, usable High C...

    OK now meditate on that for a few days and ask me for some suggestions. Wait here's one:

    Develop a powerful register up to High C with lots of endurance, THEN expand to High F.
    and I would agree and say that most trumpet players don't have a decent high C or above --because they are unwilling to put in the time and effort that it takes to be consistent. Most of the trumpet players (in my opinion) see a Doc, or Arturo, or Faddis, Bergeron, or whomever they view as their favorite trumpet player -- and they instantly think they can do that with a half hour each day (some even think they can skip lips slurs and long tones). Most people in my opinion don't achieve what they are capable of -- because they do not have the work ethic, the commitment, or the desire to put in the time and the 1000's of hours of work to achieve a decent High C, or a decent Low F# for that matter.
    Bad Luck Lux likes this.

  3. #33
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    Nov 2010

    Re: Range Developement

    Kingtrumpet- I think by high notes written in music, they meant band music not jazz. And speaking of jazz players you forgot the god of high notes: Maynard Ferguson. I play lead trumpet in my jazz band and I usually don't HAVE to go higher than an high E. But I might harmonize higher if I have the chops and feel like it. High notes aren't very useful but if you are able to produce them, they are fun as entertaining. For marching band this year, I was featured in Gonna Fly Now, made famous by Maynard. Once it got cold outside, I never played it perfect but people are just amazed by the range. Just a good crowd pleaser.
    Change is always happening. That's one of the wonderful things about jazz music.

    -Maynard Ferguson

    Bach Stradivarius 180S 43
    Bach TR300
    King 600
    Monette B2L Classic
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  4. #34
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    Nov 2011

    Re: Range Developement

    Everyone's telling you the sort of attitude you should have, but nobody has told you how to play high notes in the first place!
    Think of it like this:
    To play low notes, you need to use slower air. How? Take a slower breath.
    To play high notes, you need to use faster air. How? Take a faster breath and compress your abdomen! (Think: Someone is going to hit you in the stomach with a baseball bat) Be careful to not pinch your face up, apply immense amounts of pressure, etc. because 1) OUCH!! Don't damage your embrochure! 2) It makes you look really weird. By using pressure, you can hit the high notes, but they often sound flat and pathetic. Now that you know what to do, how can you apply it? Well, I forgot the name of the exercise but it goes like this:


    The second C, G, and A's are the higher range in case it confused you.

    So, work your way until you reach your limit. Then, do it again, trying for just one note higher. Repeat, aiming for a note higher each time. If you can't go on, then take a short break (5-10 min.). Repeat the exercise. Do this daily or bi-daily, until your range gradually increases. The reason this works is because your embrochure is a muscle, and I'm using the principle of progression and overload to strengthen the muscle. (Actually muscles because theres more than just the embrochure.) But basically progression is working your way to the goal, and overload is going just past your limits)
    Last edited by joshlalonde; 11-16-2011 at 10:22 PM.
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  5. #35
    Forte User DaTrump's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
    Huntsville, Texas

    Re: Range Developement

    Quote Originally Posted by joshlalonde View Post
    Well, I forgot the name of the exercise but it goes like this:
    Its chicowitz, part of my trumpet diet!
    "There are two sides to a trumpeter's personality: there is the one that lives only to lay waste to the woodwinds and strings, leaving them lying blue and lifeless along the swath of destruction that is a trumpeter's fury; then there's the dark side...." --Michael Stewart

  6. #36
    Forte User jiarby's Avatar
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    May 2011

    Re: Range Developement

    That's from the VC studies...

  7. #37
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    Re: Range Developement

    Quote Originally Posted by DaTrump View Post
    Bill Chase used a tiny tiny tiny mouthpiece but you don't see hordes of other players using them. I'm not saying they don't work but they definitely are not for everyone, not something you just want to go out and get. But a blanket statement saying that many people cannot use them is accurate.
    Again, a kid making blanket statements like this is silly. Why the hell wouldn't someone "just go out and get" one? If you're doing lots of lead work and and need a bright/commercial sound then a 6A4A might be the perfect choice. ANYONE can use one. It's not a magic pill that will give everyone a double C, but with time and practice there's no reason why someone couldn't adjust.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaTrump View Post
    I have seen vast amounts of players try them and a very minute amount like them and an even smaller few sound good on them.
    No you haven't. You haven't seen vast amounts of anything at this point in your life that would constitute any kind of meaningful trend.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaTrump View Post
    ...Not only that but he would have to change his entire embouchure to use it therefore if he wanted a different one for classical work, it could prove difficult. Especially going off to college, destroying your embouchure for a few extra notes is just plain asinine. If you want more high notes, practice more, ‘nough said. There is no need for such a drastic mouthpiece change.
    Inexperience is showing here in my opinion. Yes, playing different mouthpieces requires changes in approach and with chop settings, but so what? It's very common, and regular practice (lots for some) makes it possible. Becoming proficient with a "lead" mouthpiece (asymmetric, Schilke, etc.) for lead work and alternately using a Bach 1.5C (for example) for "legit" playing isn't something that can't be accomplished if someone regularly practices with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaTrump View Post
    Now calling me a kid, that is a bit of a low blow. I may be young but that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Don't quote me on this but wasn't Wynton Marsalis 7 or 8 when he had his first major performance? And if my memory serves right he was pretty well respected in the trumpet world. Being a kid, as compared to an older person, doesn’t strengthen or weaken what I said. Age is irrelevance in advice, and thusly should be treated as such.
    Calling you a kid wasn't a low blow, it was a statement of fact. You trying to pass yourself off as some kind of expert at this point in your development is ludicrous, and comparing yourself to Wynton Marsalis is delusional. How can you possibly expect/pretend to have even a fraction of the knowledge or experienced gained by the people here (many of them working pro's) who have been playing, teaching, and performing for decades??

    The phrase "you don't know what you don't know" applies here.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaTrump View Post
    Back to the issue at hand though, just practice. If you don’t know what to do just do some practicing...
    Very true statement.

  8. #38
    Forte User richtom's Avatar
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    Dec 2003

    Re: Range Developement

    I will say just this.
    An improperly chosen mouthpiece which is far too small, too deep, too shallow, has the wrong alpha angle, too big, or has a rim that doesn't work for simply cannot ever be "adapted" to. It is just plain wrong and the player will never rise to any competent level. If the mouthpiece is a fairly close match to a player, there is a chance one can overcome a slight mismatch.
    There is no way I could ever "adjust" to a Schilke 24, Bach 1, GR 61A (the Al Hirt Model), or a Schilke 5A4. None of them fit my particular embouchure. I would think this would hold true for just about anyone on this website.
    Most of the pros I know in the Chicago area do not go to extremes in mouthpiece selection for the job they have in hand. I guess that's why they have the jobs they do.
    I am donning my flame retardant suit for the next comment, but here goes.
    There certainly are young, inexperienced players giving out some rather poor and often very wrong advice, but there are more experienced "expert amateurs" here who give out even more very bad information as well.
    Rich T.
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  9. #39
    Utimate User tobylou8's Avatar
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    Dec 2008

    Re: Range Developement

    Hope it ain't me!
    Knowledge is freedom, and ignorance is slavery - Miles Davis

    The difference between a beginner and pro mouthpiece is practice - tobylou8

    Nobody has learned how to play the trumpet. It's endless. - Maynard Ferguson

    Don't be afraid to try something different. The Ark was built by an amateur and the Titanic was built by a group of experienced engineers.

    By the inch it's a cinch, by the yard, it's hard!

  10. #40
    Moderator Utimate User rowuk's Avatar
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    Jun 2006

    Re: Range Developement

    Why are there so many stupid posts when we talk about high notes? Why do those that obviously have no idea try to come on as experts.

    Stupid comment one: push more air. If the poster had even half of a clue, they would know that it isn't MORE air that gets high notes, the air has to be adequate, synchronizes with the face muscles, tongue and brain - just like Al said.

    Stupid Comment 2: use an Asymmetric. Hardware does not solve our problems - ever. If we have issues with our breathing, chops, ears or brains, no amount of hardware can compensate.

    Stupid 3: arguing about what is written up high. For those with the INTELLIGENCE to do a good job upstairs, it doesn't matter. I play with a big band and we have over 200 tunes in the book. There are only 4 or 5 where anything is scored upstairs. The Gordon Goodwin titles are scored upstairs. the second and third players need substantial range too.

    Stupid 4: use lots of pressure at the abdomen. If this was the solution, every lead trumpet player would have a rupture. Tense your stomach and march around for a while (without playing). There is a good chance that you will need diapers before too long. This is really dumb.

    My advice: if you aint doin it, just shut up. The chance of really messing someone up is too great.
    Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

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