Saddles vs Rings

eisprl · 11-04-2006, 10:40 PM

How many people have used a trumpet with the 1st ring saddle for a long time? NOW, how many of you have bought a new horn with a 1st slide ring? Was it hard to make the adjustment?

There are many trumpets that I would love to try out, however, they have the rings instead of the saddle. My thumb does not sit in the saddle, it rests on the valve casing, so that makes having a ring seem difficult to co-operate with. I had a Vintage One with a ring (I didn't like the feel of it - I sold it anyway cause I didn't like the horn). I have played this way for as long as I can remember so buying a new horn with a saddle is very important to me but like I said there are horns I want to try that have the rings.

Are there ways around it? Do some companies give the option of rings or saddles?

Thanks
Eric

KJaeger · 11-04-2006, 10:53 PM

Kanstul will do either saddle or ring for you - I am ordering a new 1510A C trumpet through Pick Music in Pa and there was no difference in cost between the two options (Same goes for choice between Amado or standard water keys).
I prefer a 1st valve ring rather than a saddle because I work the 1st valve slide alot, and I have to stretch my thumb too much to do that with a saddle. But like I said, there would have been no extra charge for a saddle - just the standard waiting time for the horn to be built at the factory since they would be making it your specs.
My Bach Bb has a saddle and I played that for 20 years before getting a Kanstul Bb with a ring, and it was no sweat to make the switch. But since it doesn't appear you use the 1st slide alot by your description, you may prefer the saddle option. Either way, Kanstul makes it pretty easy to customize to what you want if you don't mind waiting a few weeks for them to build it.

Tootsall · 11-04-2006, 10:55 PM

Hi Eric. Of course many companies will offer to do whatever you ask; it just adds to the delivery time! When I was checking out Schilke about 3 years back I tried four different models, one of which was S32. The S-series has the ring. It felt like putting on a glove to me; the horn felt like it was locked onto my hand, "part of me" if you will... it provided a very intimate feel. Someone has suggested that the thumb ring can make it more cumbersome to change mutes quickly though... which is a concern to many.

I ended up buying the B1 (saddle) but if I were ordering a new one instead of "what was in stock at the moment", (B-series) I think I'd spec the ring; it just felt "right" somehow. Having said that, I leave my thumb IN the saddle at all times and I'm sure that I could get used to the ring. Probably should have asked for a ring when I was ordering my Eclipse but..........

I think that more critical than "ring or saddle", is ensuring that the 3rd ring and 1st saddle (or ring) are positioned where they are comfortable for YOUR hand size and preferred position. I have long hands, and find that the "standard" position is just fine for my "Vulcan grip". I've known those with small hands, however, and they do benefit from having the ring/saddles positioned more closely to the valve block.

tpter1 · 11-04-2006, 11:30 PM

Eric- Lawler gives you the option of either. If your hand position dictates saddle, then go saddle. I had a saddle and went to a ring, and like the ring much better. But, that's what works for me.

trumpetmike · 11-05-2006, 05:25 AM

If you know a decent repairman, ANY make could be available with either.

I have used both (and triggers, but that is another discussion) and don't find it difficult to change between them - no real preference.

Alex Yates · 11-05-2006, 11:19 AM

Definitely a ring girl here.

Solar Bell · 11-05-2006, 11:56 AM

I have a large knuckle on my thumb.

It does not fit in a Schilke or Conn V 1 ring.

A saddle for me. I even had to have Leigh McKinney make the saddle larger on my Eclipse MS.

-cw-

rowuk · 11-05-2006, 01:29 PM

I have instruments with both. I feel no real difference. I also have a large knuckle on my thumb. I just ordered a bigger ring.

Bill Dishman · 11-09-2006, 03:21 PM

Having grown up with the saddle set ups, they feel quite natural to me. I'm sure this is just conditioning and familiarity. I have a couple of horns with 1st slide rings and have no problem switching back and forth. I do have small hands and fingers so this may have something to do with it.

A friend of mine definitely prefers the ring. He had rings put on all of his horns.

Bill Dishman
Gainesville, Florida

wrbandel · 11-09-2006, 04:37 PM

How about a trigger?

11-04-2006, 10:40 PM	#1
eisprl Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Halifax, NS CANADA Posts: 560	Saddles vs Rings How many people have used a trumpet with the 1st ring saddle for a long time? NOW, how many of you have bought a new horn with a 1st slide ring? Was it hard to make the adjustment? There are many trumpets that I would love to try out, however, they have the rings instead of the saddle. My thumb does not sit in the saddle, it rests on the valve casing, so that makes having a ring seem difficult to co-operate with. I had a Vintage One with a ring (I didn't like the feel of it - I sold it anyway cause I didn't like the horn). I have played this way for as long as I can remember so buying a new horn with a saddle is very important to me but like I said there are horns I want to try that have the rings. Are there ways around it? Do some companies give the option of rings or saddles? Thanks Eric __________________ Eric Sproul Practice is like filling a leaky bucket Bb: Yamaha Xeno 8335 Flugel: Hub Van Laar ACK Mouthpieces: GR tech, Bobby Shew Flugel mp www.stadband.ca

11-04-2006, 10:53 PM	#2
KJaeger Pianissimo User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 101	Kanstul will do either saddle or ring for you - I am ordering a new 1510A C trumpet through Pick Music in Pa and there was no difference in cost between the two options (Same goes for choice between Amado or standard water keys). I prefer a 1st valve ring rather than a saddle because I work the 1st valve slide alot, and I have to stretch my thumb too much to do that with a saddle. But like I said, there would have been no extra charge for a saddle - just the standard waiting time for the horn to be built at the factory since they would be making it your specs. My Bach Bb has a saddle and I played that for 20 years before getting a Kanstul Bb with a ring, and it was no sweat to make the switch. But since it doesn't appear you use the 1st slide alot by your description, you may prefer the saddle option. Either way, Kanstul makes it pretty easy to customize to what you want if you don't mind waiting a few weeks for them to build it. __________________ - Kevin Jaeger Pikes Peak Philharmonic Colorado Springs, CO

11-04-2006, 11:30 PM	#4
tpter1 Forte User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern New York Posts: 2,310	Eric- Lawler gives you the option of either. If your hand position dictates saddle, then go saddle. I had a saddle and went to a ring, and like the ring much better. But, that's what works for me. __________________ -Glenn "Roses have thorns; shining waters mud. Clouds and eclipses stain the moon and the sun; and history reeks of the wrongs we have done. After today, after today, consider me gone."- Sting

11-05-2006, 11:56 AM	#7
Solar Bell Moderator Utimate User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 5,526	I have a large knuckle on my thumb. It does not fit in a Schilke or Conn V 1 ring. A saddle for me. I even had to have Leigh McKinney make the saddle larger on my Eclipse MS. -cw- __________________ Chuck Willard *The Willard of Oz* "Don't be afraid to see what you see." Ronald Reagan The average response time of a 911 call is over 4 minutes. The average speed of my 9mm is 1250 fps *When seconds count....the police are only minutes away.*

11-05-2006, 01:29 PM	#8
rowuk Moderator Utimate User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 7,364	I have instruments with both. I feel no real difference. I also have a large knuckle on my thumb. I just ordered a bigger ring. __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

11-04-2006, 10:55 PM	#3
Tootsall Fortissimo User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Yee HAW! Posts: 4,641	Hi Eric. Of course many companies will offer to do whatever you ask; it just adds to the delivery time! When I was checking out Schilke about 3 years back I tried four different models, one of which was S32. The S-series has the ring. It felt like putting on a glove to me; the horn felt like it was locked onto my hand, "part of me" if you will... it provided a very intimate feel. Someone has suggested that the thumb ring can make it more cumbersome to change mutes quickly though... which is a concern to many. I ended up buying the B1 (saddle) but if I were ordering a new one instead of "what was in stock at the moment", (B-series) I think I'd spec the ring; it just felt "right" somehow. Having said that, I leave my thumb IN the saddle at all times and I'm sure that I could get used to the ring. Probably should have asked for a ring when I was ordering my Eclipse but.......... I think that more critical than "ring or saddle", is ensuring that the 3rd ring and 1st saddle (or ring) are positioned where they are comfortable for YOUR hand size and preferred position. I have long hands, and find that the "standard" position is just fine for my "Vulcan grip". I've known those with small hands, however, and they do benefit from having the ring/saddles positioned more closely to the valve block.

11-05-2006, 05:25 AM	#5
trumpetmike Forte User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Farnham (a place too smal Posts: 1,202	If you know a decent repairman, ANY make could be available with either. I have used both (and triggers, but that is another discussion) and don't find it difficult to change between them - no real preference.

11-05-2006, 11:19 AM	#6
Alex Yates Forte User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 2,405	Definitely a ring girl here.

11-09-2006, 03:21 PM	#9
Bill Dishman Pianissimo User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Gainesville, Florida Posts: 132	Ring vs Saddle Having grown up with the saddle set ups, they feel quite natural to me. I'm sure this is just conditioning and familiarity. I have a couple of horns with 1st slide rings and have no problem switching back and forth. I do have small hands and fingers so this may have something to do with it. A friend of mine definitely prefers the ring. He had rings put on all of his horns. Bill Dishman Gainesville, Florida

11-09-2006, 04:37 PM	#10
wrbandel Pianissimo User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Rochester, MN Posts: 164	How about a trigger?

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