Wildman

Does anyone know what kind of commission the sales people make at Brasswind, Dillon, or Giardinelli's?

I am trying to figure out how much negotiating power I have if they are going to make commission on a few horns in one shot.

MrWho3421

I am not sure how much comission they really get. When I have worked for music stores in the past, I have always been paid by the hour and noone was getting any kind of commission. I wouldn't walk into Dillon and try to bargain with them like you are buying a car. That's just not cool. They are a small business trying to compete with the big corps. You could try at Brasswind and Giardinelli's. I don't think you will get anywhere, but you can try.

-AK

Firestas'1

Dillon's prices are also very competetive, prices for specials and sale items are usually very good.

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Stan J.

What is to reach the heart must come from above. If it does not, it will be nothing but notes, body without spirit.
--Ludwig van Beethoven

Music is God's best gift to man. The only art of heaven given to earth, the only art of earth we take to heaven.
--Letitia Elizabeth Landon

rowuk

Wildman, even if you knew the commissions (or the stores margins) that would not help you. Getting paid commissions generally means a much reduced fixed salary and your question in that context would only hurt the salesmans paycheck.
More applicable would be knowing the stores margins. They are pretty easy to figure out. Take the lowest internet price, deduct 2 or 3% and you have the cost price to the music store. Small and medium sized businesses really need around 10% just to make ends meet (meaning that they could afford to be there to serve you next year). That is very tough to get with the internet pressure.
If your only intention is to get the lowest price, buy on the internet. Even you will eventually learn that SERVICE does not come free.
It is your right to ask for a discount. If they think you are reasonable, you may get what you want. I would venture to say, your negotiating power has more to do with your personality than your knowledge of margins.

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Wildman

Some helpful comments but I won't quote everyone here.

I will say that I don't give 2 hoots about the salesman's paycheck, or the store owner's pocket for that mattter. I have dealt with leaders who say "If I pay you any more it is out of my own pocket" Well, better his than mine.

The salesman will maybe deal with me. This store probably figures that they will sell the horn I am looking at anyway. I don't think they are going to let the salesman sell it cheaper. The only discount I see is off the sales commission. That's why I am looking to find it.

I wondered if anyone had worked in these stores and knew for sure what their cut was.

Jimi Michiel

Wildman,

I'm not trying to cut you down, but... As others have mentioned, a lot of these smaller places don't have much of a sales margin anyways. Do you honestly feel comfortable asking a hardworking salesman to give you the food off his (or her) table just because you feel that you shouldn't play full price for a horn? What would you say to someone who wants to hire you for a gig but thinks they can get away with paying you $50 for three hours? What if they say, "hey, you're not doing anything that night anyway, why don't you just play for 20 percent of what you actually deserve?"

To be honest, you sound a little arrogant, and that's not going to help your cause. Why not try to be a little more positive and tell the leader who can't pay you any more that you're just thankful to be a working musician? Politely ask if there is any way you can get a discount, but don't demand it. Chances are you'll get a lot more work with a positive attitude and you won't have to worry as much about trying to save 50 bucks on your new horn...

-Jimi

PS. If you really want to bargain, go for a used horn. It's amazing what you can find on craigslist, especially if your in a big metropolitan area. Also, music stores are going to be a lot more open to bargaining on their consignment horns than they will their new instruments.

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Wildman

Well if it is arrogant to not let people rip you off I guess I am very arrogant. I think it's arrogant for a leader to make that staement because it is pure bull.

Oh yes, what ever massah wants to give me I'll gladly accept because he is the one who deserves it, not me. I'm so lucky to be a working musician, It's such an honor to be asked to play in his crummy group and make him look good. Why don't I play for $5 an hour? Then he could keep even more money in his pocket.

The intent of this thread is to find out bargianing power. I don't care about finding used horns in different places.

Thanks to those sticking to the original topic. No more bleeding heart bologna please.

rowuk

Wildman,
I think we need to keep things unconfused. There is a difference between getting a great deal (win/win) and getting screwed (lose/win) or screwing (win/lose)!

The reason most shops are not having a very easy time these days is because the internet with NO storefront and minimal employees has less overhead. Many shoppers only concerned with the lowest possible price enjoy the opportunity to try out horns at a music store, but are not willing to acknowledge that capital tied up in inventory is results in a higher price worth paying. They "steal" the advantage by trying the horns out at the stores expense and then "screw" the store by buying elsewhere - short term a win/lose situation, but as the stores go out of business, a lose/lose situation.

I am not accusing you of doing this but you do not get "ripped off" when you pay the price of the horn PLUS the cost of business. You do not get ripped off when you pay a "higher price" than on the internet IF you have the advantage of being able to pick the best from several instruments. You get ripped off if you go into any purchase situation ignorant. You rip others off when you use their money to help you make a decision and do not honor that advantage with your purchase.

As I said in my last post "I would venture to say, your negotiating power has more to do with your personality than your knowledge of margins." If you go into a purchasing situation as "aggressive" as your posts seem, you probably will not even GET the "opportunity" to bargain.

It is understandable that we have players on both sides of this fence. Many of us are willing to pay for a true value add and are annoyed by apparent greed. The terms "ripped off" and arrogant only serve to heat up the discussion with no additional value to the thread.

My advice is to go get that "best deal" with charm and reason. Keep in mind that the store owner is not an idiot or thief when his first concern is the survival of his shop. Selling you instruments at his cost price does not help him be there for US next year!

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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

max3k

Wildman,

You are being ridiculous. It is one thing to ask for a fair deal. It is a whole different thing to demand noone make a profit for goods or services that you want. I can appreciate haggling on a horn or any other product. If it were my store, and you came in acting like that, you'd be tossed out in 2 seconds. Noone wants to deal with an ahole. I would be much more willing to discount a horn to someone who is courteous and respectful. Just my opinion, do what you will.

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veery715

Dear Wildman -
Remember - you get what you pay for. The meaning of which runs waaaay deeper than you think. Your bandleader knows what I mean. There is more to it than just sticking a horn on your face and playing the right notes and having them sound good.

Go find your discount, but if you don't take something away from this thread about attitude it is your loss.

Music is a gift.

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