Shortening First Valve Slide

MahlerBrass · 11-12-2006, 01:45 AM

Howdy all, I've heard of people getting their first valve slides cut on their Bach C trumpets, I was wondering why this was, what the pros are, and maybe some of the drawbacks, thanks!

Jimi Michiel · 11-12-2006, 05:34 AM

My understanding is that some people choose to get their 1st slide cut so they have a way to push up the 4th line D, which is usually a little low. I'm pretty sure George Coble (former NY Phil, now principal in Syracuse) had this done to his horn. I don't know anybody else though. The only drawback I could see is that for everything else to be in tune you need to pull out on the first slide.

Jimi

trumpetmike · 11-12-2006, 09:51 AM

I have seen a few people who have had their slide shortened to enable the D to be played on the "proper" fingering.
An interesting addition is one that Will Spencer has done on his (and a few others') instrument - a push me pull you spring on the first valve which keeps it in the right place for the majority of playing yet can be pushed in slightly for the relevant notes.

rowuk · 11-13-2006, 10:29 AM

I believe the first valve on older Bachs are a little longer than the correct mathematical length. This is a comprimise to compensate when using it in combination with the other valves. If the "A" (1+2) is in tune without pulling the first valve slide a little, it is too long.
As many Bach C trumpets are not very well in tune, cutting the first slide will in fact help bring the 4th line D up to where it belongs - unfortunately the in tune Bb and F will then be sharp. Be careful!
The Bach website also has a forum and they recommend a different backbore for the mouthpiece used on the C trumpet to help with intonation. I am surprised that Bach has not been able or willing to solve this problem. Other manufacturers have............

Jimi Michiel · 11-13-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowuk

The Bach website also has a forum and they recommend a different backbore for the mouthpiece used on the C trumpet to help with intonation.

I've never heard that. You mean a different backbore than a B-flat mouthpiece? That's interesting... I understand Monette's theory about different length mouthpieces for different keyed trumpets, but I don't understand how changing the backbore relates to key. Do you have a link you could post?

Jimi

rowuk · 11-13-2006, 02:21 PM

Hi Jimi,
http://www.bachbrass.com/phpBB/viewf...91c2132fa5d267
You will have to dig a little bit, it is not as comfortable as TM!
I remember something about a size 24 bore or something like that for the C trumpet. Dave Monette is onto something completely different however.
I think the best description about what can happen in a mouthpiece is here:
http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/index_e.htm
click on research and then on mouthpiece forms
You find out quickly that a mouthpiece can compensate for a lot of trumpet manufacturing sins............

MrClean · 11-13-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trumpetmike

I have seen a few people who have had their slide shortened to enable the D to be played on the "proper" fingering.
An interesting addition is one that Will Spencer has done on his (and a few others') instrument - a push me pull you spring on the first valve which keeps it in the right place for the majority of playing yet can be pushed in slightly for the relevant notes.

That is sweet! I want one!

J

trumpetmike · 11-13-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrClean

That is sweet! I want one!

J

Come over and get one - I am sure Will would be willing to introduce you to the local ale as well

(As will I - two reasons to come over here

)

MrClean · 03-21-2007, 02:41 PM

I'll be over there in late June and again in early November.

Jim

Vulgano Brother · 03-21-2007, 02:56 PM

A much bigger issue is the third slide on Bachs! Ebs are too low, so you can cut it down to the true 23 length, or cut it down a bit more so that high a is in tune with third valve.

11-12-2006, 01:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
MahlerBrass Piano User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 371	Shortening First Valve Slide Howdy all, I've heard of people getting their first valve slides cut on their Bach C trumpets, I was wondering why this was, what the pros are, and maybe some of the drawbacks, thanks! __________________ Music isn't a career, it's a way of life.

11-12-2006, 05:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jimi Michiel Forte User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 1,772	My understanding is that some people choose to get their 1st slide cut so they have a way to push up the 4th line D, which is usually a little low. I'm pretty sure George Coble (former NY Phil, now principal in Syracuse) had this done to his horn. I don't know anybody else though. The only drawback I could see is that for everything else to be in tune you need to pull out on the first slide. Jimi __________________

11-13-2006, 10:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 4,624	I believe the first valve on older Bachs are a little longer than the correct mathematical length. This is a comprimise to compensate when using it in combination with the other valves. If the "A" (1+2) is in tune without pulling the first valve slide a little, it is too long. As many Bach C trumpets are not very well in tune, cutting the first slide will in fact help bring the 4th line D up to where it belongs - unfortunately the in tune Bb and F will then be sharp. Be careful! The Bach website also has a forum and they recommend a different backbore for the mouthpiece used on the C trumpet to help with intonation. I am surprised that Bach has not been able or willing to solve this problem. Other manufacturers have............ __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

11-13-2006, 02:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 4,624	Hi Jimi, http://www.bachbrass.com/phpBB/viewf...91c2132fa5d267 You will have to dig a little bit, it is not as comfortable as TM! I remember something about a size 24 bore or something like that for the C trumpet. Dave Monette is onto something completely different however. I think the best description about what can happen in a mouthpiece is here: http://iwk.mdw.ac.at/index_e.htm click on research and then on mouthpiece forms You find out quickly that a mouthpiece can compensate for a lot of trumpet manufacturing sins............ __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

03-21-2007, 02:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
MrClean Piano User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 252	Re: Shortening First Valve Slide I'll be over there in late June and again in early November. Jim

11-12-2006, 09:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
trumpetmike Forte User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Farnham (a place too smal Posts: 1,202	I have seen a few people who have had their slide shortened to enable the D to be played on the "proper" fingering. An interesting addition is one that Will Spencer has done on his (and a few others') instrument - a push me pull you spring on the first valve which keeps it in the right place for the majority of playing yet can be pushed in slightly for the relevant notes.

03-21-2007, 02:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
Vulgano Brother Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Home Posts: 3,276	Re: Shortening First Valve Slide A much bigger issue is the third slide on Bachs! Ebs are too low, so you can cut it down to the true 23 length, or cut it down a bit more so that high a is in tune with third valve. __________________ "A tool good enough to be so used and not too good" C.S. Lewis That Hideous Strength www.letsbuildhope.org

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