Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter...

NickD · 05-17-2007, 12:27 PM

Folks, I recently picked up a Yamaha Silent Brass system. I did it primarily for the mute/mic to use as a pickup for midi effects.

I did notice a problem when I used the little amp and headphones - the original funciton. I am hearing a lot of valve clatter in the little headphones. It goes up and down with the volume setting, so it is clearly gtting in through the mic. I am considering putting a layer of softer foam on the mute to see if that reduces the problem. I could also use an older horn with felt instead of neoprene pads.

Thoughts? Suggestions? I know many of you use these.

Thanks in advance!

Nick

Stile442 · 05-17-2007, 02:38 PM

I've had mine for about 6 months and know exactly what your talking about. I haven't found a fix for it yet but when I'm actually playing I don't hear the valve clatter. Maybe the recording software won't pick it up while you're recording because the sound will override the clatter?....

rowuk · 05-17-2007, 07:16 PM

When you have a mic in the bell everything gets through. The clatter is at least proof that you are pushing the valves down firmly! I suspect the only solution is to use the felt instead of the neoprene. You may want to try leather instead of the neoprene - fine organs use that to absorb the "shock" when pushing the keys down.
I am sure that neoprene(unless it is VERY soft) would aggrevate Carpal Tunnel Syndrom too.

Vulgano Brother · 05-17-2007, 07:35 PM

The extra padding you're proposing should help, at least in regards to what sound is transmitted through the metal. Don Ellis used some of those sounds to good advantage -- check out Pussywiggle Stomp from Live at Filmore. Keep us posted!

Jon Kratzer · 05-19-2007, 03:56 PM

I don't think the silent brass system is really very useful as a recording device. I think it's a great practise tool if you can't play out in the open (hotel rooms...air planes(ahem..)...any where you need to be silent), but they are far too restrictive in the sense of being able to produce a natural sound. I tried recording a few things with it and just couldn't get the sound I was looking for. Stick with a good ribbon mic ;)

Jon

A.N.A. Mendez · 05-19-2007, 04:41 PM

Use noise reducing headphones you will notice a big difference

NickD · 05-19-2007, 08:00 PM

Actually, I want to use is as a pick-up - not so much as a mic or even a recording device. This would be for more "avant-garde" stuff. I'm using it as an EVI sort of thing. I made some progress with it today and got it running with my PC. The valve clatter was not as much of a problem as anticipated. I'm going to try running it through a vacuum tube preamp and see how that affects the basic sound that I'll be processing.

I can drive a ring modulator wth it or some other sort of signal processors. What I really want to do is find an AD/Midi convertor device that is not a software patch for my PC. I want hardware for taking on gigs. This is a bit more problematic.

More to follow...

Nick

Jon Kratzer · 05-21-2007, 09:49 AM

I know it's not the most cost effective thing, but have you conisdered getting one of James Morrison's Digital trumpets?

They cost about $1800 USD ($2195.00 AUD), and they sound fantastic.

They're probably the finest EVI I've ever heard.

This may be your best solution to EVI since you can program almost any voice into them.

TrentAustin · 05-21-2007, 10:52 AM

IMO get an EWI 4000s. It's $700 and comes with it's own built in internal analog synth that sounds amazing if tweaked right. I love the unit and practice on it daily.

-T

PS: It has a hidden "EVI" fingering mode that makes this unit even more attractive to trumpeters.

Jon Kratzer · 05-21-2007, 11:04 AM

How does the EWI 4000s work if you want to add vibrato... The MDT has a nice spot where you can control it with your thumb and has a very sophisticated method for detecting the the air velocity ad. nauseum to get different tones and colours in the sound.

Jon

05-17-2007, 12:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
NickD Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago northern suburbs Posts: 845	Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter... Folks, I recently picked up a Yamaha Silent Brass system. I did it primarily for the mute/mic to use as a pickup for midi effects. I did notice a problem when I used the little amp and headphones - the original funciton. I am hearing a lot of valve clatter in the little headphones. It goes up and down with the volume setting, so it is clearly gtting in through the mic. I am considering putting a layer of softer foam on the mute to see if that reduces the problem. I could also use an older horn with felt instead of neoprene pads. Thoughts? Suggestions? I know many of you use these. Thanks in advance! Nick __________________ NickD "Live Webcam Lessons Now Available with NickD" http://www.nickdrozdoff.com http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com http://www.myspace.com/nickdrozdoff

05-17-2007, 02:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Stile442 Pianissimo User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Deland Fl Posts: 221	Re: Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter... I've had mine for about 6 months and know exactly what your talking about. I haven't found a fix for it yet but when I'm actually playing I don't hear the valve clatter. Maybe the recording software won't pick it up while you're recording because the sound will override the clatter?.... __________________ -Go Confidently Into The Direction Of Your Dreams- Bb-Modified Bach Strad 43H C-Bach Strad Chicago 229 Picc-Schilke P5-4 GR 66M; 66SZ; 63PM Brandon Loos www.myspace.com/brandonloos

05-17-2007, 07:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
rowuk Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 4,624	Re: Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter... When you have a mic in the bell everything gets through. The clatter is at least proof that you are pushing the valves down firmly! I suspect the only solution is to use the felt instead of the neoprene. You may want to try leather instead of the neoprene - fine organs use that to absorb the "shock" when pushing the keys down. I am sure that neoprene(unless it is VERY soft) would aggrevate Carpal Tunnel Syndrom too. __________________ Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

05-17-2007, 07:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
Vulgano Brother Moderator Fortissimo User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Home Posts: 3,276	Re: Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter... The extra padding you're proposing should help, at least in regards to what sound is transmitted through the metal. Don Ellis used some of those sounds to good advantage -- check out Pussywiggle Stomp from Live at Filmore. Keep us posted! __________________ "A tool good enough to be so used and not too good" C.S. Lewis That Hideous Strength www.letsbuildhope.org

05-19-2007, 03:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
Jon Kratzer Pianissimo User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 149	Re: Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter... I don't think the silent brass system is really very useful as a recording device. I think it's a great practise tool if you can't play out in the open (hotel rooms...air planes(ahem..)...any where you need to be silent), but they are far too restrictive in the sense of being able to produce a natural sound. I tried recording a few things with it and just couldn't get the sound I was looking for. Stick with a good ribbon mic ;) Jon __________________ Seid bereit, immer bereit. http://www.jonkratzer.com - down for construction- http://www.grmouthpieces.com

05-19-2007, 04:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
A.N.A. Mendez Mezzo Piano User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 681	Re: Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter... Use noise reducing headphones you will notice a big difference __________________ (Above) Alexanders ragtime band-circa 1960 "Baby, I'm already the coolest, and the hippist, now you want me to be on time too?" Buddy Love "We appointed all our worst generals to command our armies, and our best generals to edit our newspapers." Robert E. Lee

05-19-2007, 08:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
NickD Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Chicago northern suburbs Posts: 845	Re: Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter... Actually, I want to use is as a pick-up - not so much as a mic or even a recording device. This would be for more "avant-garde" stuff. I'm using it as an EVI sort of thing. I made some progress with it today and got it running with my PC. The valve clatter was not as much of a problem as anticipated. I'm going to try running it through a vacuum tube preamp and see how that affects the basic sound that I'll be processing. I can drive a ring modulator wth it or some other sort of signal processors. What I really want to do is find an AD/Midi convertor device that is not a software patch for my PC. I want hardware for taking on gigs. This is a bit more problematic. More to follow... Nick __________________ NickD "Live Webcam Lessons Now Available with NickD" http://www.nickdrozdoff.com http://www.newyorktrumpetcompany.com http://www.myspace.com/nickdrozdoff

05-21-2007, 09:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
Jon Kratzer Pianissimo User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 149	Re: Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter... I know it's not the most cost effective thing, but have you conisdered getting one of James Morrison's Digital trumpets? They cost about $1800 USD ($2195.00 AUD), and they sound fantastic. They're probably the finest EVI I've ever heard. This may be your best solution to EVI since you can program almost any voice into them. __________________ Seid bereit, immer bereit. http://www.jonkratzer.com - down for construction- http://www.grmouthpieces.com

05-21-2007, 10:52 AM	#9 (permalink)
TrentAustin Moderator Forte User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,738	Re: Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter... IMO get an EWI 4000s. It's $700 and comes with it's own built in internal analog synth that sounds amazing if tweaked right. I love the unit and practice on it daily. -T PS: It has a hidden "EVI" fingering mode that makes this unit even more attractive to trumpeters. __________________ Trent Austin http://www.trentaustin.com http://www.onlinejazzimprovisation.com Yamaha EM Yamaha Chicago C 1939 Martin Handcraft Imperial (restored at www.osmun.com) Olds Clark Terry Flugel Schilke P5-4 Morrison MDT (coming SOON!) Other horns fs in Marketplace Wedge SST mpcs

05-21-2007, 11:04 AM	#10 (permalink)
Jon Kratzer Pianissimo User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 149	Re: Silent Brass System and Valve Clatter... How does the EWI 4000s work if you want to add vibrato... The MDT has a nice spot where you can control it with your thumb and has a very sophisticated method for detecting the the air velocity ad. nauseum to get different tones and colours in the sound. Jon __________________ Seid bereit, immer bereit. http://www.jonkratzer.com - down for construction- http://www.grmouthpieces.com

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