Speaking of the C trumpet......

JonathanShaw · 02-17-2007, 05:52 PM

A while back, I had an argument with a friend about this: Is the C trumpet meant for transposition purposes, or does the C trumpe possess a different sound that the Bflat does not?

Brekelefuw · 02-17-2007, 06:10 PM

The sound is a bit brighter.

Manny Laureano · 02-17-2007, 07:06 PM

The C trumpet was built when the big F trumpet and the Bb/A trumpet and cornets were the main horns that were used. The small Eb trumpet/cornet was also in use. The C trumpet was desgned to aid in the upper register demands of "new " repertoire like Mahler symphonies.

It became the favorite instrument of the French tradition while the Germans and Austrians and Finns like Sibelius continued to write for the F and Bb. Most of the French literature was written for the C trumpet. You can see the split beginning in the French repertoire with Debussy and Saint Saëns with pieces like La Mer and Saint Saëns' 3rd symphony. Both pieces by those composers where written for a section of F and C instruments. Mahler's 3rd asks specifically for a short, quiet passage in the third movemnt to be played on an Eb cornet. When French players came to America (Georges Mager, principally) they brought the sound of the C trumpet with them. This influenced players like Vacchiano and Herseth. Vacchiano was probably the first important player of his generation to use the C and D almost exclusively.

He used it to make technical licks easier and for the compactness and focus of the sound. So, to answer your question, yes, it's about transposition, focus, and sound. Many orchestral tuba players use a C tuba for the same reasons but I've never seen a C trombone.

ML

BudBix · 02-17-2007, 08:32 PM

Thanks Manny! This is the best summary of why we use C trumpets I've read. People get hung up on a single reason why and it's really a variety of factors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny Laureano

The C trumpet was built when the big F trumpet and the Bb/A trumpet and cornets were the main horns that were used. The small Eb trumpet/cornet was also in use. The C trumpet was desgned to aid in the upper register demands of "new " repertoire like Mahler symphonies.

It became the favorite instrument of the French tradition while the Germans and Austrians and Finns like Sibelius continued to write for the F and Bb. Most of the French literature was written for the C trumpet. When French players came to America (Georges Mager, principally) they brought the sound of the C trumpet with them. This influenced players like Vacchiano and Herseth. Vacchiano was probably the first important player of his generation to use the C and D almost exclusively.

He used it to make technical licks easier and for the compactness and focus of the sound. So, to answer your question, yes, it's about transposition, focus, and sound. Many orchestral tuba players use a C tuba for the same reasons but I've never seen a C trombone.

ML

stchasking · 02-17-2007, 10:51 PM

Manny,

I am pretty sure the trombone is a concert instrument. It plays in C.

Brekelefuw · 02-17-2007, 10:55 PM

Trombone is a considered a concert instrument, but in reality it is a Bb instrument because its fundamental note is Bb. It does read in concert.

Manny Laureano · 02-18-2007, 12:15 AM

Exactly.

ML

Eclipsehornplayer · 02-18-2007, 07:48 AM

Great explanation Manny!

I could not agree with the brighter sound; mine surely is not! However your statement is one with which I can agree totally!

Well done sir!

Manny Laureano · 02-18-2007, 10:13 AM

little bump to let you know I added some more to that which i wrote yesterday regarding the use of the big F and smaller C together in French repertoire.

ML

stchasking · 02-18-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brekelefuw

Trombone is a considered a concert instrument, but in reality it is a Bb instrument because its fundamental note is Bb. It does read in concert.

Thankyou. I'll give my trombone playing friend the third degree on this. I'll make him explain it to me as punishment.

02-17-2007, 05:52 PM	#1 (permalink)
JonathanShaw Pianissimo User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 111	Speaking of the C trumpet...... A while back, I had an argument with a friend about this: Is the C trumpet meant for transposition purposes, or does the C trumpe possess a different sound that the Bflat does not?

02-17-2007, 06:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
Brekelefuw Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 885	Re: Speaking of the C trumpet...... The sound is a bit brighter.

02-17-2007, 07:06 PM	#3 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	Re: Speaking of the C trumpet...... The C trumpet was built when the big F trumpet and the Bb/A trumpet and cornets were the main horns that were used. The small Eb trumpet/cornet was also in use. The C trumpet was desgned to aid in the upper register demands of "new " repertoire like Mahler symphonies. It became the favorite instrument of the French tradition while the Germans and Austrians and Finns like Sibelius continued to write for the F and Bb. Most of the French literature was written for the C trumpet. You can see the split beginning in the French repertoire with Debussy and Saint Saëns with pieces like La Mer and Saint Saëns' 3rd symphony. Both pieces by those composers where written for a section of F and C instruments. Mahler's 3rd asks specifically for a short, quiet passage in the third movemnt to be played on an Eb cornet. When French players came to America (Georges Mager, principally) they brought the sound of the C trumpet with them. This influenced players like Vacchiano and Herseth. Vacchiano was probably the first important player of his generation to use the C and D almost exclusively. He used it to make technical licks easier and for the compactness and focus of the sound. So, to answer your question, yes, it's about transposition, focus, and sound. Many orchestral tuba players use a C tuba for the same reasons but I've never seen a C trombone. ML Last edited by Manny Laureano : 02-18-2007 at 10:11 AM. Reason: Additional info

02-17-2007, 10:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
stchasking Forte User Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,161	Re: Speaking of the C trumpet...... Manny, I am pretty sure the trombone is a concert instrument. It plays in C.
	__________________ "I was performing professionally at age 17 and have never had a real job." Allen Vizzutti http://cdbaby.com/cd/mcking

02-17-2007, 10:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
Brekelefuw Mezzo Forte User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 885	Re: Speaking of the C trumpet...... Trombone is a considered a concert instrument, but in reality it is a Bb instrument because its fundamental note is Bb. It does read in concert.

02-18-2007, 12:15 AM	#7 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	Re: Speaking of the C trumpet...... Exactly. ML

02-18-2007, 07:48 AM	#8 (permalink)
Eclipsehornplayer Forte User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Flat Rock, Michigan Brand: Eclipse, Bach, and Getzen Posts: 2,395	Re: Speaking of the C trumpet...... Great explanation Manny! I could not agree with the brighter sound; mine surely is not! However your statement is one with which I can agree totally! Well done sir!
	__________________ Eclipse MHY Bb Trumpet with interchangable leadpipes Bach 229 25A C Trumpet Getzen Capri Bb Cornet GR & Monette mouthpieces

02-18-2007, 10:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
Manny Laureano Utimate User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: USA Posts: 5,989	Re: Speaking of the C trumpet...... little bump to let you know I added some more to that which i wrote yesterday regarding the use of the big F and smaller C together in French repertoire. ML

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