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Trumpet Discussion Discuss Squealing* in the General forums; Originally Posted by wiseone2 It was probably Frank Greene. I weigh about 170 and I am darn near 6 ft. ...
  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiseone2
    It was probably Frank Greene. I weigh about 170 and I am darn near 6 ft. tall, I did a sub for Jimmy Owens in a section that was lead by Faddis. Frank Greene and Sean Jones were the other players. These guys are NFL size. I got to get to the gym
    Wilmer
    HA. I'm 6'1 and 320lbs... NFL size... but I still need to get to the gym too! lol, wanna be my workout buddy? lol. Take care.

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    I think I'm going to like this website. Thanks, guys. I'll use this one as my response. Just FYI, I didn't realize that the term wasn't what I thought. Y'll know (thankfully) what I meant by "squealing": a "boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone".
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Chartrand
    Hey guys

    Dylan is right...Pigs squeel, not trumpet players who play properly. I have several things to say on this subject. Go for that controled dark centered sound. The best way to acheive it is through years of lip development and a good large cup deep mouthpiece like a Bach 1c. Some might whine (years ago myself included) that a 1c is to hard to play, but once you develop your lip with tons of arpegios and have the sound, then you have it.
    What do you know? I switched to my fabulous 1C last year. It is the best mouthpiece I've ever had. Like I said, I have a comfortable C, a comfortable D, and past that it is at that point where I'm just saying "Maybe". On the mouthpiece, it sounds, but it has that weird feeling. I don't really know how to explain it. ... Is that undesireable? Or something to master regarding freakishly high notes?
    Many might think incorrectly that the best horn gives the best sound...Not so. If you are a great musician then no matter what horn you play, you will sound good.
    Got that right.
    Case and point, I was recently forced to play a student trumpet at a gig, and still got tons of compliments on my playing and tone.

    A good mouthpiece is the most single important factor that will shape your lip and your sound. Theres no need for Monettes, they are in my opinion a waste of money. I play a $1000 horn and because of my technique and mouthpiece, Ive been told than I sound as good as Wynton.
    Hat's off to you. One heck of a compliment.
    Dont get me wrong, Wynton is a great musician, he has been playing for, and is at about the same level of musicianship as I am, but if you put a good 1c mouthpiece and a Martin Committee in his hands, he'd sound pretty much the same as he does now. The reason Wynton plays a Monette is because he is a high profile musician and gets free horns from the company for his endorsement.

    Monette mouthpieces on the other hand in my opinion are a very economical way to impove your tone 100% and are totally worth the $200 or so investment. But $10,000 for a trumpet??? C'mon!

    As one reviewer so eliquently put it years ago... ''You could put a garbage can of a horn in Miles Davis' hands, and he'd still sound great!'' Musicianship is everything.

    Perfect practise gives Perfect Results.

    Rick AKA Trumpet Man
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpet Blower88
    Even in marching band, you still don't want to squeal... I know what your talking about though, like the lead soprano in last years Blue Devils show? I'm pretty sure thats what you want to sound like, and that is most definatly not "squealing". I think you have been useing the wrong word to describe this kind of playing, because squealing is not musical in any genre, "a squealing trumpet only makes babies want to cry, and grannies want to die", in the words of my old section leader.
    So for the rest of this post, lets refer to this "squealing" as a "boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone"
    That's what I mean. When I say "squeal", I mean "playing up there and taking down the walls" and not "playing up there and leaving it dripping on the walls."
    Now, if you want to play with a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone, I would sugest starting off nice and low and push as much air though the horn as you can to make just the thickest, fattest, loudest, most amazeing sound you've ever made. Start with something comfortable, a G or C in the staff would work fine. Once you get comfortable with that, start going up chromaticaly stoping on each note and just blowing more air than you've ever blown though the horn befor. Don't go to far though and and mess up your pitch or start to get a crappy tone, keep it beutiful, you have to be sensitive enough that you can still get that boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone, but still makeing it sound good. If you blow to hard and loose control of yourself, then you get the squealing... and remember... we don't want babies crying and grannies dieing... we want a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone.
    I know the kind of sound you mean. You have a person with range, but not tone. What you get is a 'blatter'. I guess a 'squeal' is a 'blat' taken up an octave, eh?
    The main thing you need to work on for makeing a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone, is air support. You need to keep the air pressure at just the right amount, useing too much will cause you to squeal, and not useing enough will cause you to loose dynamics, tone, and make you go flat.
    and not get the darn note... then it's a squeak.
    You need to keep the air in your lungs at a constant and comfortable pressure, it's very important! There is a video that has been mentioned on here several times befor, it's made by two of the best tuba players in the world, Pat Sheridon and Sam Pilaphian (I know I spelled that wrong...) I would deffinatly suggest you watch those videos and practice these breating excersizes daily. My highschool works on breathing exercises for about 15 to 20 minuets every day and I strongly believe that it is because of our dedication to breathing that we are ranked as one of the top 5 in the state.
    Breathing can do wonders. Here's a story for y'all (in exchange for all this that y'all are doing for this. I love this discussion) regarding breathing.
    A friend of mine is a fabulous trumpet player, who I disagree with some of what he does, but mostly we can each go to each other to sharpen each other's playing. He and I give trumpet lessons to little kids, and one of his kids (who, at the time, had the same director that my friend had when he was that age) had a little piece to play. They were about three years apart in playing experience. Now, this director emphasizes breathing more than pretty much anyone around here. My friend went and played the piece as far as they could in one breath and that little girl almost matched him. Now I find that amazing, because that would mean that little girl, at that time, breathed better than people with two years experience on my friend. I wish I could get my hands on that video.
    Playing a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone is all about your airflow. Practices this everyday and in just a couple weeks you'll probably be hitting higher notes with a bigger and fatter sound.
    Some more litle, less important advice to you is to stop calling is "squealing"... You do not want to squeal, it's gross and discusting. If you want to here squealing, all you have to do is go stand in the warm up area of a "less outstanding" highschool marching band and hear the 1st and 2nd trumpet trying to see who can play higher and louder, that is squealing. If you want to hear a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone, then listen to the Blue Devils show on the 2004 season cd, about 2 1/2 minuets into the show you will hear a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone... that is not squealing...

    Wow, sorry about the length of this post... I wasn't expecting myself to write a novel...
    No problem. Thank you all for your input. I like this site. My question, though, still stands for me:
    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Like I said, I have a comfortable C, a comfortable D, and past that it is at that point where I'm just saying "Maybe". On the mouthpiece, it sounds, but it has that weird feeling. I don't really know how to explain it. ... Is that undesireable? Or something to master regarding freakishly high notes?

  3. #13
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    A squeel may make you feel good at it may impress the guy standing beside you BUT it will NEVER be heard across the field. A squeel don't carry. ONly you a a few friends will even know you did it.

    A total waste of time.

    New Expanded Range Arban at http://www.NewArban.com
    Plus my other books at http://www.BbTrumpet.com
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    Pops

    It is the Smart application of hard work that gets you there.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pops
    A squeel may make you feel good at it may impress the guy standing beside you BUT it will NEVER be heard across the field. A squeel don't carry. ONly you a a few friends will even know you did it.

    A total waste of time.
    My saying 'squeal', as these fine players discerned, was not what I thought. It's not what you think, either. I know what you mean: a squeak. I now know that a squeal is a BLAT taken up an octave or two. Look to trumpet blower88 for what I actually mean by "squeal". :)

    I'm going to bump my last post, as I would like a response.
    quote=me:




    Quote Originally Posted by butxifxnot
    I think I'm going to like this website. Thanks, guys. I'll use this one as my response. Just FYI, I didn't realize that the term wasn't what I thought. Y'll know (thankfully) what I meant by "squealing": a "boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone".
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Chartrand
    Hey guys

    Dylan is right...Pigs squeel, not trumpet players who play properly. I have several things to say on this subject. Go for that controled dark centered sound. The best way to acheive it is through years of lip development and a good large cup deep mouthpiece like a Bach 1c. Some might whine (years ago myself included) that a 1c is to hard to play, but once you develop your lip with tons of arpegios and have the sound, then you have it.
    What do you know? I switched to my fabulous 1C last year. It is the best mouthpiece I've ever had. Like I said, I have a comfortable C, a comfortable D, and past that it is at that point where I'm just saying "Maybe". On the mouthpiece, it sounds, but it has that weird feeling. I don't really know how to explain it. ... Is that undesireable? Or something to master regarding freakishly high notes?
    Many might think incorrectly that the best horn gives the best sound...Not so. If you are a great musician then no matter what horn you play, you will sound good.
    Got that right.
    Case and point, I was recently forced to play a student trumpet at a gig, and still got tons of compliments on my playing and tone.

    A good mouthpiece is the most single important factor that will shape your lip and your sound. Theres no need for Monettes, they are in my opinion a waste of money. I play a $1000 horn and because of my technique and mouthpiece, Ive been told than I sound as good as Wynton.
    Hat's off to you. One heck of a compliment.
    Dont get me wrong, Wynton is a great musician, he has been playing for, and is at about the same level of musicianship as I am, but if you put a good 1c mouthpiece and a Martin Committee in his hands, he'd sound pretty much the same as he does now. The reason Wynton plays a Monette is because he is a high profile musician and gets free horns from the company for his endorsement.

    Monette mouthpieces on the other hand in my opinion are a very economical way to impove your tone 100% and are totally worth the $200 or so investment. But $10,000 for a trumpet??? C'mon!

    As one reviewer so eliquently put it years ago... ''You could put a garbage can of a horn in Miles Davis' hands, and he'd still sound great!'' Musicianship is everything.

    Perfect practise gives Perfect Results.

    Rick AKA Trumpet Man
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpet Blower88
    Even in marching band, you still don't want to squeal... I know what your talking about though, like the lead soprano in last years Blue Devils show? I'm pretty sure thats what you want to sound like, and that is most definatly not "squealing". I think you have been useing the wrong word to describe this kind of playing, because squealing is not musical in any genre, "a squealing trumpet only makes babies want to cry, and grannies want to die", in the words of my old section leader.
    So for the rest of this post, lets refer to this "squealing" as a "boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone"
    That's what I mean. When I say "squeal", I mean "playing up there and taking down the walls" and not "playing up there and leaving it dripping on the walls."
    Now, if you want to play with a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone, I would sugest starting off nice and low and push as much air though the horn as you can to make just the thickest, fattest, loudest, most amazeing sound you've ever made. Start with something comfortable, a G or C in the staff would work fine. Once you get comfortable with that, start going up chromaticaly stoping on each note and just blowing more air than you've ever blown though the horn befor. Don't go to far though and and mess up your pitch or start to get a crappy tone, keep it beutiful, you have to be sensitive enough that you can still get that boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone, but still makeing it sound good. If you blow to hard and loose control of yourself, then you get the squealing... and remember... we don't want babies crying and grannies dieing... we want a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone.
    I know the kind of sound you mean. You have a person with range, but not tone. What you get is a 'blatter'. I guess a 'squeal' is a 'blat' taken up an octave, eh?
    The main thing you need to work on for makeing a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone, is air support. You need to keep the air pressure at just the right amount, useing too much will cause you to squeal, and not useing enough will cause you to loose dynamics, tone, and make you go flat.
    and not get the darn note... then it's a squeak.
    You need to keep the air in your lungs at a constant and comfortable pressure, it's very important! There is a video that has been mentioned on here several times befor, it's made by two of the best tuba players in the world, Pat Sheridon and Sam Pilaphian (I know I spelled that wrong...) I would deffinatly suggest you watch those videos and practice these breating excersizes daily. My highschool works on breathing exercises for about 15 to 20 minuets every day and I strongly believe that it is because of our dedication to breathing that we are ranked as one of the top 5 in the state.
    Breathing can do wonders. Here's a story for y'all (in exchange for all this that y'all are doing for this. I love this discussion) regarding breathing.
    A friend of mine is a fabulous trumpet player, who I disagree with some of what he does, but mostly we can each go to each other to sharpen each other's playing. He and I give trumpet lessons to little kids, and one of his kids (who, at the time, had the same director that my friend had when he was that age) had a little piece to play. They were about three years apart in playing experience. Now, this director emphasizes breathing more than pretty much anyone around here. My friend went and played the piece as far as they could in one breath and that little girl almost matched him. Now I find that amazing, because that would mean that little girl, at that time, breathed better than people with two years experience on my friend. I wish I could get my hands on that video.
    Playing a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone is all about your airflow. Practices this everyday and in just a couple weeks you'll probably be hitting higher notes with a bigger and fatter sound.
    Some more litle, less important advice to you is to stop calling is "squealing"... You do not want to squeal, it's gross and discusting. If you want to here squealing, all you have to do is go stand in the warm up area of a "less outstanding" highschool marching band and hear the 1st and 2nd trumpet trying to see who can play higher and louder, that is squealing. If you want to hear a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone, then listen to the Blue Devils show on the 2004 season cd, about 2 1/2 minuets into the show you will hear a boisterous, obtrusive, ear pierceing, incredibly high, beutiful tone... that is not squealing...

    Wow, sorry about the length of this post... I wasn't expecting myself to write a novel...
    No problem. Thank you all for your input. I like this site. My question, though, still stands for me:
    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Like I said, I have a comfortable C, a comfortable D, and past that it is at that point where I'm just saying "Maybe". On the mouthpiece, it sounds, but it has that weird feeling. I don't really know how to explain it. ... Is that undesireable? Or something to master regarding freakishly high notes?

  5. #15
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    My advice for the top would be to work on it slowly. It still is early in the season, really really really early, so you have the advantage of not having to rush to try and get range you can do it right. A previous poster said to try and add a step a week and thats a good way to look at it, little steps, after 2 months (the beginning of the marching season) you'll have added an octave (in your case a solid double C). When I have worked on range in the past doing lots of pedal tone excercises and arrpegios. Two octave arpeggios starting on pedal C and then moving up a half step at a time until it doesn't sound good and then stop is always a lot of fun.


    I think to say that horn has nothing to do with how you sound is absurd. While you may be able to manipulate most horns to sound the way you want it takes more of an effort. I agree that the mouthpiece is probably the most important part of the equation as far as equipment is concerned a horn definitely makes a difference with how easy it is to get the desired results.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Chartrand
    The reason Wynton plays a Monette is because he is a high profile musician and gets free horns from the company for his endorsement.
    Wynton pays for his Monette stuff just like everybody else who plays Monette gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmkt16
    My advice for the top would be to work on it slowly. It still is early in the season, really really really early, so you have the advantage of not having to rush to try and get range you can do it right. A previous poster said to try and add a step a week and thats a good way to look at it, little steps, after 2 months (the beginning of the marching season) you'll have added an octave (in your case a solid double C).
    If I had a solid double C at the beginning of marching season, I would be very excited. What do you suggest exercise-wise? (ie work up until it sounds bad, go down a half step and play around there?)
    When I have worked on range in the past doing lots of pedal tone excercises and arrpegios. Two octave arpeggios starting on pedal C and then moving up a half step at a time until it doesn't sound good and then stop is always a lot of fun.
    ? Sounds good, but I don't entirely get it.
    -"More air", "open the throat", "arch the tongue"; Next
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    Start on a pedal C and do a two octave major arpeggio. Continue on to a Pedal C# and do a two octave major arpeggio. Keep going until you can't play the notes at the top with a good sound. After doing this make sure to rest a while because you should really feel this, its a good workout. Another would be start on a G in the staff and play a measure of 8th notes at 120 and then play a measure on F# and then a measure on Ab so you are extending the interval between the notes you are playing chromatically, no rest between measures. Breath threw your nose so you don't give yourself a chance to reset your embouchure when the interval starts getting bigger. Continue until it's a two octave interval, low G to high G. You WILL feel this in your corners if you are doing it right and not cheating. Again as with the other one make sure to rest for a while afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmkt16
    Start on a pedal C and do a two octave major arpeggio. Continue on to a Pedal C# and do a two octave major arpeggio. Keep going until you can't play the notes at the top with a good sound. After doing this make sure to rest a while because you should really feel this, its a good workout. Another would be start on a G in the staff and play a measure of 8th notes at 120 and then play a measure on F# and then a measure on Ab so you are extending the interval between the notes you are playing chromatically, no rest between measures. Breath threw your nose so you don't give yourself a chance to reset your embouchure when the interval starts getting bigger. Continue until it's a two octave interval, low G to high G. You WILL feel this in your corners if you are doing it right and not cheating. Again as with the other one make sure to rest for a while afterwards.
    I like you. Thank you for the input and the idea. I'll try that and keep this in mind. Something tells me that'll also help me to get my transitioning from low embouchure to high more workable. Speaking of pedal C, listening to just a little bit of Claude Gordon play has helped me get that pedal C much easier. Something about that man's playing just teaches...
    -"More air", "open the throat", "arch the tongue"; Next
    -"Long tones: my anti-drug"

  9. #19
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    *Oh, here's an example of a 'squeal' that I was referring to (in the supporting trumpet section, there is, what I thought to be, a squealer, but I can tell now that that is not )
    http://www.trumpetstuff.com/images/Other/BumbleBee.ram
    [edit]Apart from a couple lower trumpet parts fraccing (and some bad accuracy ), this sounds pretty cool.
    -"More air", "open the throat", "arch the tongue"; Next
    -"Long tones: my anti-drug"

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    2 questions:

    Does anyone here personally find any merits to a daily "stretching" of the range?

    And how to build up volume/power on a note that sounds, but not very loudly? Continued general practice? I know that solves everything else...

    -"More air", "open the throat", "arch the tongue"; Next
    -"Long tones: my anti-drug"

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