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Trumpet Discussion Discuss Stumac's Research Project in the General forums; Originally Posted by Vulgano Brother How about "curiosity" for an answer? My questions were all about using the data you've ...
  1. #41
    Fortissimo User Sethoflagos's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Lagos, Nigeria

    Re: Stumac's Research Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgano Brother View Post
    How about "curiosity" for an answer? My questions were all about using the data you've collected and ways to gather ancillary data. The first question was about the effect of changing tongue position while being measured by the manometer,
    This set up is really only suitable for measuring oral cavity pressure during a steady sustained note. It takes a couple of seconds for the liquid levels to stop bouncing around and settle. I only have my own data to go on, and I play all my sustained notes (at least to high C) with a low tongue. For me, raising the tongue while holding a steady pitch does not affect the pressure measurement, though it does 'tweak' at my embouchure and alter tone a little. If we had data sets for some players who habitually use a high tongue level for sustained notes in the upper registers, then we would have something to compare. I have a hunch as to what we would see, but it's only conjecture at this stage so I'll keep my hunch to myself for now.

    I did try warbling a few lip trills for interest. The notes are too fast for the manometer to follow, but for a lip trill E-G the indicated pressure settles at some 'weighted average' level that's a lot closer to the steady G mark than the E.

    ...the second to see if playing the same notes on the mouthpiece alone require the same pressure.
    There doesn't seem to be that much in it. I've just done a quick check and for a high G, the Wild Thing seems to take a little (maybe 10%) less lung pressure than the mouthpiece alone to hold pianissimo. As the volume goes up, the difference magnifies exponentially: there's no way I can manage even a decent forte on the mouthpiece. I suppose that's where we get the leverage from the instrument's resonance.

    No, I've not looked at flutter-tonguing yet.
    Vulgano Brother likes this.
    Bb Trumpets: Yamaha YTR-6335HSII - Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" - 1972 Getzen Eterna "Severinsen" - 1980 Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign Studio - B&S 3005 WTR-L - 1963 Besson 10-10 - Monke Mystery Horn - Spiri Vario
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  2. #42
    Moderator Utimate User rowuk's Avatar
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    Jun 2006

    Re: Stumac's Research Project

    I really don't know the significance of the DC component = our exhale. Up to the lips, perhaps also air pressure in the cup is clear, but my hunch after the throat it is merely exhaust or the possibility to move moisture forward.

    Pressure signal would be very prone to error due to the "violent" standing waves in the instrument...... I believe that Schilke did some research to find the pressure nodes to optimize the leadpipe. Richard Smith has some related research.

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    By the way, here is some data on the impedance of the trumpet that would be useful to compare to the pressure curves and understand what "help" we get from the resonant system. There should be a strong correlation (a very wide grin from my side - Seth look what happens AFTER high C.....):

    Quote Originally Posted by Sethoflagos View Post
    Thermistor would be good. Though with these rapidly fluctuating quantities, the challenge is always getting the system inertia (thermal inertia in the case of a thermistor) down low enough to track the signal without too much lag.

    We could even go the whole hog and bond a mini strain gauge to the shank next to the thermistor to try and pick up a pressure signal. Even if we didn't manage great absolute accuracy, it would be really interesting to plug both signals into an oscilloscope and see what was going on with phase shift vs volume etc.
    Sethoflagos likes this.
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