brem

Call me too square or academic, but what does a brighter or darker tone sounds like?

Musicians use this terminology, but someone, to me, it means nothing

Is there a lexicon with sound samples anywhere? Could be a nice project for anyone who is daring!

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brem
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NYTC Stage 1 California Light - Wedge 3C cup w/ Warburton 7 backbore mpc
Bach Stradivarius Bb Model 37 * #124xxx (circa 1975) - Schilke 15B mpc
Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn #000xxx - Yamaha 14F4-GP mpc

rowuk

Hi Brem,
you open a real can of worms with that question!
In theory, we should be able to identify dark and bright by the proportion of higher to lower overtones - more higher means brighter. UNFORTUNATELY it is not that easy! A player with a "smooth" playing style can have a technically brighter sound that is interpreted as "dark" or "full". A player with an aggressive playing style can laser cut glass, even although the overtones are proportioned "darkly".

So we have a technical and artistic discrepancy. There are many that say the harware makes no difference, after getting used to the horn it will sound the same anyway. This is simply not true. The "artistic" style of a player is in fact a constant, but the hardware can drastically change the palette of colors available.

A very good comparison of instruments was done by Manny Laureano of the Minneapolis Symphony. click on this link:

David G. Monette Corporation

another good comparison is by Adam Rapa. click here:

At the Monette factory 2. Testing three new custom mouthpiec

Maybe other TMers have other links?

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godchaser

Thanks for the info Robin; and the question brem.

veery715

brem - on your stereo you may have a graphic equalizer. They were very popular for a while. Essentially they were an expansion of the old tone control which dialed from bass to treble in the same fashion a volume control dials from soft to loud. The graphic equalizer made it possible to accentuate (or diminish) the amount of volume within a specific range of frequencies, dividing the audible spectrum of frequencies into several, or many, separate ranges.

I think what we commonly think of as bright is the accentuating of the upper frequencies; dark is the accentuating of the lower ones. This is an oversimplification, no question about it, but may help you to get the gist of the issue. When Robin talks about overtones, he is delving more deeply into the physics of music, but the essence is the same.

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Trumpets:
Lawler Bb / Olds Recording / Schilke B2
Selmer Rad 2 / Yamaha 8310Z
Holton MF ST 550S / Stage 1 California C
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1934 Cleveland (HN White) 603 Silver Plate w/ Gold Bell

Kanstul ZKT 1525 Flugelhorn

Cornets:
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Olds Ambassador / Conn 18A
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brem

veery: thanks, it helps visualizing.

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brem
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NYTC Stage 1 California Light - Wedge 3C cup w/ Warburton 7 backbore mpc
Bach Stradivarius Bb Model 37 * #124xxx (circa 1975) - Schilke 15B mpc
Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn #000xxx - Yamaha 14F4-GP mpc

Billy B

This is like describing the taste of chocolate to someone who has never tasted chocolate. Have you ever heard or read a wine taster's description of a particular wine? If you had never had wine do you suppose any of that would make any sense to you? Many also have a habit of noting the differences in two sounds instead of listening for the similarities. To me this is the only way to build a concept of sound.

brem

Billy: Agreed. However, we need a common ground. It's hard over the internet to discuss sounds without actual sounds excerpts :)

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brem
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NYTC Stage 1 California Light - Wedge 3C cup w/ Warburton 7 backbore mpc
Bach Stradivarius Bb Model 37 * #124xxx (circa 1975) - Schilke 15B mpc
Yamaha YFH-731 Flugelhorn #000xxx - Yamaha 14F4-GP mpc

rdt1959

Brem;

Yes, this is a hard subject to discuss over the internet. One suggestion;

If you have a teacher or know a local pro, maybe you could talk to them and have them produce light and dark tones.

It's hard to talk about, and hard to describe, but when you hear the difference the concepts start to click.

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Dick Taylor
Georgia
Comeback Player
Benge 65B

c.nelson

The first impulse of a sound,or"attack",can greatly influence our impression of tone.
A fast or sharp attack can give the impression of a "brighter"tone,were as a slower,breathy attack may be described as" darker".imho

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Vulgano Brother

Just to add to the confusion--one person's dark is another person's dull.

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